• The manifesto

    From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Tim Richardson on Tuesday, August 13, 2019 03:50:02
    On 08-11-19 21:23, Tim Richardson <=-
    spoke to Gregory Deyss about Re: What happened? <=-

    For one thing the guy's so-called `manifesto' runs all over the place.
    It defines no clear, direct political side; either democrat OR
    republican!

    If you have a copy of the manifesto, I would like to see a link to it.
    I have not been able to find it. I have only seen reporting about it.

    He doesn't just target `hispanics' he also targets `average
    Americans'. He also calls for a `decrease in the general American population' without stating which part of the `American population'
    should be `decreased'.

    Please post where he says that. What I read is a quote from the
    introduction that says "this attack is a response to the Hispanic
    invasion of Texas. They are the instigators, not me. I am simply
    defending my country from cultural and ethnic replacement brought on by
    an invasion."

    He called for `universal healthcare' and `universal income'; both of
    which are liberal socialist democrat issues! (Surprise!) But you didn't see any leftie media mention THOSE points.

    Again -- post as to where he said such. I'd like to see it if he in
    fact said that.

    They would LOVE to tie Trump into one or both shooters, but it doesn't work!

    All that is being said is that the El Paso shooter is echoing things
    which Trump has said repeatedly.

    BTW...did you know he tied his `manifesto' to the environment by
    naming it (get ready) "The Inconvenient Truth"! (Shades of Al Gore!)

    I doubt that -- he named it "The inconvenient Truth" but anything else associating his manifesto to the environment must have come out of Fox
    News.

    There's more of a `democrat' leaning to it than republican..

    Neither. It is a leaning to white nationalism which is not part of
    either party doctrine -- although Trump seems to go out of his way to
    excuse or encourage such sentiments for his own political gain.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 03:13:45, 13 Aug 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Dale Shipp on Tuesday, August 13, 2019 13:45:46
    Re: The manifesto
    By: Dale Shipp to Tim Richardson on Tue Aug 13 2019 03:50:02

    For one thing the guy's so-called `manifesto' runs all over the place. It defines no clear, direct political side; either democrat OR republican!

    If you have a copy of the manifesto, I would like to see a link to it.
    I have not been able to find it. I have only seen reporting about it.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190803162950/https://8ch.net/file_dl/7e1363f7757dbaa81b0be29cedfb854dbdd7c3559b1c5afa0e15d63402d39934.pdf/The_Inconvenient_Truth.pdf

    or

    https://tinyurl.com/yyez4mzc


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.08-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Mark Lewis on Wednesday, August 14, 2019 03:13:02
    On 08-13-19 13:45, Mark Lewis <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about The manifesto <=-

    If you have a copy of the manifesto, I would like to see a link to it.
    I have not been able to find it. I have only seen reporting about it.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190803162950/https://8ch.net/file_dl/7e13 63f7757 baa81b0be29cedfb854dbdd7c3559b1c5afa0e15d63402d39934.pdf/The Inconvenient_Truth.pdf

    or

    https://tinyurl.com/yyez4mzc

    Got it -- thanks.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 03:14:33, 14 Aug 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to DALE SHIPP on Wednesday, August 14, 2019 16:40:30
    Please post where he says that. What I read is a quote from the
    introduction that says "this attack is a response to the Hispanic
    invasion of Texas. They are the instigators, not me. I am simply
    defending my country from cultural and ethnic replacement brought on by
    an invasion."

    While I'm sure that a lot of (white) whackos think hispanics are invading
    the US, the fact of the matter is that the hispanics were here before the
    USA existed. Most of the southwestern US states are former
    states/provinces of Mexico - northern California being a significant
    exception, it's a former colony of imperial Russia, as was Alaska.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Bob Ackley on Thursday, August 15, 2019 01:36:02
    On 08-14-19 16:40, Bob Ackley <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about The manifesto <=-


    Please post where he says that. What I read is a quote from the introduction that says "this attack is a response to the Hispanic
    invasion of Texas. They are the instigators, not me. I am simply
    defending my country from cultural and ethnic replacement brought on by
    an invasion."

    While I'm sure that a lot of (white) whackos think hispanics are
    invading the US, the fact of the matter is that the hispanics were here before the USA existed. Most of the southwestern US states are former states/provinces of Mexico - northern California being a significant exception, it's a former colony of imperial Russia, as was Alaska.

    Very good point. So why are some people so afraid of letting Hispanics
    into the USA? Or in kicking out the ones that are here already -- even
    the ones with valid visas?

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)




    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:37:39, 15 Aug 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to BOB ACKLEY on Thursday, August 15, 2019 11:07:38

    On 2019 Aug 14 16:40:30, you wrote to DALE SHIPP:

    Please post where he says that. What I read is a quote from the
    introduction that says "this attack is a response to the Hispanic
    invasion of Texas. They are the instigators, not me. I am simply
    defending my country from cultural and ethnic replacement brought on by
    an invasion."

    While I'm sure that a lot of (white) whackos think hispanics are invading the US, the fact of the matter is that the hispanics were here before the USA existed.

    exactly... the american indians and south americans are a lot closer than many people think...

    Most of the southwestern US states are former states/provinces of
    Mexico - northern California being a significant exception, it's a
    former colony of imperial Russia, as was Alaska.

    true, too...

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... If it ain't a wolf it's a hell of a big dog said the third little pig.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Dale Shipp on Thursday, August 15, 2019 11:09:38

    On 2019 Aug 15 01:36:02, you wrote to Bob Ackley:

    While I'm sure that a lot of (white) whackos think hispanics are
    invading the US, the fact of the matter is that the hispanics were
    here before the USA existed. Most of the southwestern US states are
    former states/provinces of Mexico - northern California being a
    significant exception, it's a former colony of imperial Russia, as
    was Alaska.

    Very good point. So why are some people so afraid of letting
    Hispanics into the USA? Or in kicking out the ones that are here
    already -- even the ones with valid visas?

    here's an interesting thought...

    "If 'illegals' are freeloaders, why does ICE raid workplaces? (and why aren't
    employers charged?)"

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... Junk: stuff we throw away. Stuff: junk we keep.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to mark lewis on Friday, August 16, 2019 03:10:12
    Hello mark,

    While I'm sure that a lot of (white) whackos think hispanics are >BA>>invading the US, the fact of the matter is that the hispanics were >BA>>here before the USA existed. Most of the southwestern US states are >BA>>former states/provinces of Mexico - northern California being a >BA>>significant exception, it's a former colony of imperial Russia, as >BA>>was Alaska.

    Very good point. So why are some people so afraid of letting
    Hispanics into the USA? Or in kicking out the ones that are here >DS>already -- even the ones with valid visas?

    here's an interesting thought...

    "If 'illegals' are freeloaders, why does ICE raid workplaces? (and why
    aren't employers charged?)"

    Different rules for different folks.

    For example, the other day, ICE arrested and detained 680 undocumented immigrants. But the employers remained open for business, not having
    been found of any wrongdoing. Why the difference?

    Those who were working at those places were not able to show they
    were here legally, and were thus detained. The employers may have
    had papers given to them by undocumented immigrants that were fake.
    Had the employer made fake documents for its employees who were not
    US citizens, then ICE would have had grounds. But how is ICE able
    to determine who created the fake documents?

    The laws dealing with this were passed before the digital revolution.
    They need to be upgraded. But nothing can be done due to the stupid ideological warfare between the two camps in DC.

    --Lee

    --
    Laying Pipe Since '88

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to mark lewis on Thursday, August 15, 2019 22:39:36
    "If 'illegals' are freeloaders, why does ICE raid workplaces? (and why aren't employers charged?)"

    They're taking the free ride when it comes to paying for visas and/or overstaying their visit. That occurs while all other humans on the planet are working for extremely low wages, trying to save up for lawful immigration to the US. Freeloaders: they enter for free.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to aaron thomas on Friday, August 16, 2019 09:34:00
    On 2019 Aug 15 22:39:36, you wrote to me:

    "If 'illegals' are freeloaders, why does ICE raid workplaces? (and
    why aren't employers charged?)"

    They're taking the free ride when it comes to paying for visas and/or overstaying their visit.

    what ""free ride""?? they're working aren't they? that makes them not freeloaders...

    and if the companies know their employees' status, why aren't they being charged? they should be easily capable of keeping up with an expiration date and let their employees know that it is coming up... they should also be able to use that date to refuse those employees access to the workplace to work but should still allow them access to the pay they are owed for their work...

    That occurs while all other humans on the planet are working for
    extremely low wages,

    are you saying that freeloaders make more than others?
    are you saying that immigrants are willing to accept lower pay than others?

    trying to save up for lawful immigration to the US. Freeloaders: they enter for free.

    no one said anything about how they entered... remember, too, that they have a year to apply *after* they have entered the country NO MATTER HOW they entered...

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... Man does not live by bread alone. He must have peanut butter - Dave Gardner ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to aaron thomas on Friday, August 16, 2019 22:53:20
    Hello Aaron,

    ml> "If 'illegals' are freeloaders, why does ICE raid workplaces? (and why
    ml> aren't employers charged?)"

    They're taking the free ride when it comes to paying for visas and/or >overstaying their visit. That occurs while all other humans on the planet
    are
    working for extremely low wages, trying to save up for lawful immigration to >the US. Freeloaders: they enter for free.

    What about those who marry a US citizen to get here?
    Are they also `freeloaders', as you suggest?

    What about foreign students who marry US students at university?
    Are they also `freeloaders', as you suggest?

    The US has funny rules. If foreigner marries US citizen he/she
    meets in US, it is marriage scam and foreigner is sent back to where
    he/she came from. But if foreigner is student who meets US student
    at university, that is not marriage scam and foreigner allowed to
    stay with US mate as valid married couple.

    So. Who are `freeloaders' - and are who are not?

    --Lee

    --
    Change Is Cumming

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to mark lewis on Friday, August 16, 2019 20:11:37
    what ""free ride""?? they're working aren't they? that makes them not freeloaders...

    While working a job is honorable, it's dishonorable to step on the backs of those who obeyed the law on their journey to the USA.

    and if the companies know their employees' status, why aren't they being charged? they should be easily capable of keeping up with an expiration

    Those companies should be charged - but do you really want those companies charged? Wouldn't that be you backstabbing your exploitables? Your
    exploitables don't want those companies charged.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to Lee Lofaso on Friday, August 16, 2019 20:17:01
    What about those who marry a US citizen to get here?
    Are they also `freeloaders', as you suggest?

    That's not free; they have plenty fees to pay to legally migrate to the USA with their new spouse. So no - those who marry a US citizen to get here are
    not freeloaders.

    What about foreign students who marry US students at university?
    Are they also `freeloaders', as you suggest?

    Nope! Those are people who are paying the fees. They're not freeloaders
    either.

    People who lack the integrity to enter the USA through one of the many ports
    of entry are freeloaders.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to DALE SHIPP on Friday, August 16, 2019 18:41:00
    On 08-13-19, DALE SHIPP said to TIM RICHARDSON:

    On 08-11-19 21:23, Tim Richardson <=-
    spoke to Gregory Deyss about Re: What happened? <=-

    For one thing the guy's so-called `manifesto' runs all over the place.
    It defines no clear, direct political side; either democrat OR
    republican!


    If you have a copy of the manifesto, I would like to see a link to it.


    I'll tell you the same thing I used to tell the rest of the lefties in here;


    I am not your research assistant. Its out there. find it yourself!


    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to ALL on Friday, August 16, 2019 23:09:00
    On 08-15-19, DALE SHIPP said to BOB ACKLEY:


    Very good point. So why are some people so afraid of letting Hispanics DS>into the USA? Or in kicking out the ones that are here already -- even DS>the ones with valid visas?



    (Sigh!)


    Nobody is *afraid* of letting Hispanics or any others `into the USA'!


    I love how the lefties try to feign blindness or ignorance to the facts. Its interesting to note lefties getting up in front of cameras and microphones and stating `their' version of "...we are a country/nation/system of laws!"... but then declaring a city or state....or a municipality a `sancuary'place.


    In the recently-executed crackdown on illegals holding employment here in the US (illegally)....various `lefties' pre-warned illegals of the impending
    raids.


    What the lefties who did that (and the lefties who inhabit the Fido echoes)
    are either failing to see, or are deliberately ignoring, that amounts to `aiding and abeting in criminality'!


    Firstly....there were laws passed some time ago against employers knowingly hiring or employing `illegal' aliens. When was the last time anyone heard of
    an employer being prosecuted to the full extent of `the law' for that offense?


    Secondly....any politicians who pre-warned anyone of pending ICE raids on
    their place of business or other location...are guilty of aiding and abeting those who are committing crimes.


    Before one of the lefties in here goes off on a rant about it;


    Entering the US without coming through one of the ports of entry, with the intent to thwart the procedure set up for lawful entry into the US...is a crime!


    Taking employment in the US without a lawfully obtained permission to work here...is a crime!


    Any person who warns of an impending ICE raid for the purpose of enforcing US immigration laws, is aiding and abetting criminals.


    We are a system of laws!


    When leftie wants to make points with those they think will aid them in their greatest endeavor (gaining all the power they possibly can)....they will go to any lengths; pretend we have no border laws....ignore the 12 million or so
    `law breakers' we have running around the country.....even go so far as to do everything they can to thwart the lawful enforcement of our laws.


    But when its to `their' public image advantage....they fall all over each
    other to get to a mic in front of a camera and spout that old standby `we are
    a country/system of laws'!


    Lefties don't give a shit about the number of jobs Americans need that are being held by `illegal aliens'. A vast majority of the large companies
    illegals are working for contribute to `democrats' or republicans who may as well BE democrats (for all the use they are).






    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to MARK LEWIS on Saturday, August 17, 2019 12:25:06
    On 2019 Aug 15 01:36:02, you wrote to Bob Ackley:

    here's an interesting thought...

    "If 'illegals' are freeloaders, why does ICE raid workplaces? (and
    why aren't
    employers charged?)"

    Employers - including Donald J Trump - who KNOWINGLY hire "undocumented immigrants" SHOULD be prosecuted.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to aaron thomas on Saturday, August 17, 2019 23:41:00
    Hello Aaron,

    What about those who marry a US citizen to get here?
    Are they also `freeloaders', as you suggest?

    That's not free; they have plenty fees to pay to legally migrate to the USA >with their new spouse. So no - those who marry a US citizen to get here are >not freeloaders.

    If a US citizen meets a foreign citizen in the US, and marries
    that individual, it would be deemed a sham marriage. However, if
    a US citizen meets a foreign citizen outside of the US, and marries
    that inividua, it would not be deemed a sham marriage. The reason
    for this is because the foreign citizen is viewed as having come
    here in order to obtain citizenship in an underhanded way.

    What about foreign students who marry US students at university?
    Are they also `freeloaders', as you suggest?

    Nope! Those are people who are paying the fees. They're not freeloaders >either.

    If a US citizen meets a foreign citizen in the US at a university,
    then why is that not viewed in the same light as if a US citizen meets
    a foreign citizen in the US? Are you saying that all a foreign citizen
    has to do in order to obtain US citizenship is become a student at at
    US college or university and marry a US citizen who is also a student?

    People who lack the integrity to enter the USA through one of the many ports
    of entry are freeloaders.

    It has nothing to do with entering ports of entry.

    A US citizen who marries a foreign citizen in the US is viewed as
    a sham marriage, the foreign citizen being sent back to wherever he/she
    came from.

    If both the US citizen and foreign citizen are students at a US
    college or university, and get married, their marriage is viewed
    as valid and the foreign citizen can stay, going on to become a
    US citizen himself/herself.

    In fact, two foreign students can marry at a US college or university,
    have a kid who is a US citizen, then fly back home and await their turn
    to come back.

    And to think that kid almost became president.

    Piyush "Bobby" Jindal. Grew up to become Governor of Louisiana.
    Would have been president, had it not been for Donald J. Trump.

    --Lee

    --
    We're Great In Bed

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to TIM RICHARDSON on Saturday, August 17, 2019 15:53:31
    I'll tell you the same thing I used to tell the rest of the lefties in here;


    I am not your research assistant. Its out there. find it yourself!

    The other thing I like to tell them is that the internet isn't always my source; some stuff isn't linkable.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to aaron thomas on Saturday, August 17, 2019 22:03:46

    On 2019 Aug 16 20:11:36, you wrote to me:

    what ""free ride""?? they're working aren't they? that makes them not
    freeloaders...

    While working a job is honorable, it's dishonorable to step on the
    backs of those who obeyed the law on their journey to the USA.

    who's backs are being stepped on?

    and if the companies know their employees' status, why aren't they
    being charged? they should be easily capable of keeping up with an
    expiration

    Those companies should be charged - but do you really want those companies charged?

    if they are knowingly doing wrong, you're damned right they should be charged...

    Wouldn't that be you backstabbing your exploitables? Your exploitables don't want those companies charged.

    que??

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... It wouldn't be nearly this cold if we hadn't switched to metric.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to BOB ACKLEY on Saturday, August 17, 2019 22:01:58

    On 2019 Aug 17 12:25:06, you wrote to me:

    here's an interesting thought...

    "If 'illegals' are freeloaders, why does ICE raid workplaces? (and why
    aren't employers charged?)"

    Employers - including Donald J Trump - who KNOWINGLY hire "undocumented immigrants" SHOULD be prosecuted.

    exactly! and dtrump should have landed his ass in jail years ago...

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... They say "Greed Rules The world". I'm trying to get it copyrighted.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Sunday, August 18, 2019 16:18:00
    On 08-17-19, AARON THOMAS said to TIM RICHARDSON:

    I'll tell you the same thing I used to tell the rest of the lefties in here;


    I am not your research assistant. Its out there. find it yourself!


    The other thing I like to tell them is that the internet isn't always my AT>source; some stuff isn't linkable.


    True.

    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Sunday, August 18, 2019 16:25:00
    On 08-16-19, AARON THOMAS said to LEE LOFASO:

    People who lack the integrity to enter the USA through one of the many AT>ports of entry are freeloaders.


    They are committing crimes. And those who enter again and again the same
    way are `knowingly' committing multiple crimes.


    I've noticed the harder Trump tries to enforce our border, enforce our immigration law (which many *democrats* voted for and helped pass!), the
    harder he tries to rid the country of those here illegally......the more the democrats (and some republicans) do to stall it.


    Thats gonna be a real big factor in November, 2020.

    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Sunday, August 18, 2019 16:51:00
    On 08-17-19, MARK LEWIS said to AARON THOMAS:


    On 2019 Aug 16 20:11:36, you wrote to me:


    what ""free ride""?? they're working aren't they? that makes them not
    freeloaders...


    While working a job is honorable, it's dishonorable to step on the
    backs of those who obeyed the law on their journey to the USA.


    who's backs are being stepped on?


    Americans!


    and if the companies know their employees' status, why aren't they
    being charged?


    Probably democrat donors (the companies)!


    if they are knowingly doing wrong, you're damned right they should be ML>charged...


    Yet all through the *Hussein* 8 years...I don't think any were.

    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to TIM RICHARDSON on Monday, August 19, 2019 10:51:51
    if they are knowingly doing wrong, you're damned right they should be ML>charged...

    Yet all through the *Hussein* 8 years...I don't think any were.

    Tim, are you using a QWK reader or something? Your message is addressed to
    me, but it looks more like one of those life-lesson messages for Mark :)

    ..But I want to comment on it anyway:

    Mark said "if they're knowingly doing wrong they should be charged," but how can illegal aliens be expected to know the laws here when they entered illegally? When I illegally enter countries, I don't usually study their
    legal system extensively while planning my trip. :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Aaron Thomas on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 01:40:00
    On 08-19-19 10:51, Aaron Thomas <=-
    spoke to Tim Richardson about Re: The manifesto <=-


    if they are knowingly doing wrong, you're damned right they should be
    charged...

    Mark said "if they're knowingly doing wrong they should be charged,"
    but how can illegal aliens be expected to know the laws here when they entered illegally? When I illegally enter countries, I don't usually
    study their legal system extensively while planning my trip. :)

    You lost part of the thread. The "They" in Mark's statement was not the illegal aliens, but the people (or corporations) who hire them.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:42:26, 20 Aug 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to aaron thomas on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 07:59:18

    On 2019 Aug 19 10:51:50, you wrote to TIM RICHARDSON:

    if they are knowingly doing wrong, you're damned right they should
    be charged...

    Yet all through the *Hussein* 8 years...I don't think any were.

    Tim, are you using a QWK reader or something? Your message is
    addressed to me, but it looks more like one of those life-lesson
    messages for Mark :)

    tim does that on purpose because he doesn't like talking to me any more... he hopes i won't read his misinformation and counter it with facts...

    ..But I want to comment on it anyway:

    Mark said "if they're knowingly doing wrong they should be charged," but how can illegal aliens be expected to know the laws here when they entered illegally? When I illegally enter countries, I don't usually study
    their legal system extensively while planning my trip. :)

    1. "they" in my statement is the companies/corporations hiring immigrants...
    2. immigrants have a year from their entry to file their paperwork...
    3. immigrants are not illegal until that one year anniversary passes...
    4. nothing says that immigrants HAVE to enter via one of the entry ports...

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... Chile heads know what Sexually Transmitted Capsaicin means.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Dale Shipp on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 08:05:42

    On 2019 Aug 20 01:40:00, you wrote to Aaron Thomas:

    if they are knowingly doing wrong, you're damned right they should
    be charged...

    Mark said "if they're knowingly doing wrong they should be charged,"
    but how can illegal aliens be expected to know the laws here when
    they entered illegally? When I illegally enter countries, I don't
    usually study their legal system extensively while planning my trip.
    :)

    You lost part of the thread. The "They" in Mark's statement was not
    the illegal aliens, but the people (or corporations) who hire them.

    that is correct, dale... thank you :)

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... Crayons can take you more places than starships. * Guinan
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:08:54
    I'll tell you the same thing I used to tell the rest of the lefties in here;


    I am not your research assistant. Its out there. find it yourself!

    The other thing I like to tell them is that the internet isn't always my source; some stuff isn't linkable.

    some stuff isn't TRUE
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to MARK LEWIS on Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:10:58
    On 2019 Aug 16 20:11:36, you wrote to me:

    what ""free ride""?? they're working aren't they? that makes them not
    freeloaders...

    While working a job is honorable, it's dishonorable to step on the
    backs of those who obeyed the law on their journey to the USA.

    who's backs are being stepped on?

    All of those who played by the rules.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to mark lewis on Thursday, August 22, 2019 09:29:54
    tim does that on purpose because he doesn't like talking to me any

    He's hilarious!

    1. "they" in my statement is the companies/corporations hiring immigrants... 2. immigrants have a year from their entry to file their

    So I've been wondering, why would you want businesses to be punished for
    hiring exploitables? Do we prefer to have them on public assistance than to
    be working? That way we can train them to be democrats?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to BOB ACKLEY on Thursday, August 22, 2019 22:13:12

    On 2019 Aug 22 11:10:58, you wrote to me:

    what ""free ride""?? they're working aren't they? that makes them
    not freeloaders...

    While working a job is honorable, it's dishonorable to step on the
    backs of those who obeyed the law on their journey to the USA.

    who's backs are being stepped on?

    All of those who played by the rules.

    and those are whom?? are they not allowed to work and pay taxes during the year
    they are here before they have to file?

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... Texas 7-course meal - a bowl of chili and a six-pack.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to aaron thomas on Thursday, August 22, 2019 22:19:36

    On 2019 Aug 22 09:29:54, you wrote to me:

    tim does that on purpose because he doesn't like talking to me any

    He's hilarious!

    1. "they" in my statement is the companies/corporations hiring
    immigrants... 2. immigrants have a year from their entry to file their

    So I've been wondering, why would you want businesses to be punished for hiring exploitables?

    you are also an "exploitable" ya know... stop trying to denigrate others like that... it is unbecoming...

    i want business to be punished for hiring known persons who have been here longer than allowed by law and who have not gotten an extension... those businesses are breaking the law and they are not above the law...

    Do we prefer to have them on public assistance than to be working?

    some working americans have to work two or more jobs and still be on public assistance...

    That way we can train them to be democrats?

    you don't train someone to be a democrat any more than you train a fascist nazi
    to be a republican... grow up...

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... My name is Jim and I'm a Chile-head. Group: Hi, Jim.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Thursday, August 22, 2019 22:49:00
    On 08-19-19, AARON THOMAS said to TIM RICHARDSON:

    if they are knowingly doing wrong, you're damned right they should be ML>charged...

    Yet all through the *Hussein* 8 years...I don't think any were.


    Tim, are you using a QWK reader or something?


    Yeah...I probably didn't bring up the name I meant that remark for.


    Mark said "if they're knowingly doing wrong they should be charged,"


    Illegal aliens definitely *know* there is a system in place to legally enter this country, or apply for entry. So does the Congress.


    The BIGGEST problem is we have had presidents, and still have members of both houses of Congress, who will NOT enforce our laws.


    It is the height of hypocrisy when you see politicians in front of microphones with cameras rolling saying things like; `we are a country of laws'! `We are
    a system of laws'!



    how can illegal aliens be expected to know the laws here when they entered AT>illegally? When I illegally enter countries, I don't usually study their AT>legal system extensively while planning my trip. :)



    We have a system of laws that govern the *legal* application for entry; also for immigration; and rules and procedures for applying for assylum here.


    Sneaking in across a desert area, climbing over a fence, mobbing a border station and running into the country, then scattering in all directions, is
    not part of the lawful procedure. Nor is defrauding the system by using children not even related to those arriving in order to gain entry. That is also `illegal'.


    Laws were passed quite a few presidents ago making it illegal for employers to hire anyone here illegally. But they do it anyway. Up till now I've never
    heard of anyone being prosecuted for that. Were the entire owner and administration group of the poultry processing companies recently raided and
    so many illegals arrested prosecuted such that they paid a substantial fine *per* illegal employed, PLUS their business closed down....fewer and fewer employers would hire illegals....and fewer and fewer illegals would enter the country illegally.


    The vast majority of them are only coming here for jobs (which Americans
    need), and don't want to become part of this country. If they did....they wouldn't arrive here waving the flag of another country.







    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Thursday, August 22, 2019 22:19:00
    On 08-20-19, MARK LEWIS said to AARON THOMAS:

    On 2019 Aug 19 10:51:50, you wrote to TIM RICHARDSON:

    if they are knowingly doing wrong, you're damned right they should
    be charged...

    Yet all through the *Hussein* 8 years...I don't think any were.

    Tim, are you using a QWK reader or something? Your message is
    addressed to me, but it looks more like one of those life-lesson
    messages for Mark :)


    tim does that on purpose because he doesn't like talking to me any more... ML>he hopes i won't read his misinformation and counter it with facts...



    I do do that `on purpose' but not for the reason Lewis gives here.


    In fact, Lewis doesn't know the reason I do that.


    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to mark lewis on Friday, August 23, 2019 10:56:59
    you are also an "exploitable" ya know... stop trying to denigrate others like that... it is unbecoming...

    It's not fair to call people who break the law "immigrants" or "migrants." That's like calling drug dealers "pharmacists."

    i want business to be punished for hiring known persons who have been

    Punished for what? It's not illegal to use loopholes to manipulate the law.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to TIM RICHARDSON on Friday, August 23, 2019 11:09:50
    Illegal aliens definitely *know* there is a system in place to legally

    I think so too, but some of our Fido friends are suggesting that they are
    just as innocent as migratory birds who come for a short stay.

    The BIGGEST problem is we have had presidents, and still have members of both houses of Congress, who will NOT enforce our laws.

    I don't know what you mean? How can Congress enforce the law? I've been
    hearing stories about liberal criminal court justices & city officials who won't enforce the laws- those who refuse to cooperate with ICE, helping illegals escape through back doors, etc.

    Sneaking in across a desert area, climbing over a fence, mobbing a border station and running into the country, then scattering in all directions,

    These things you've mentioned are things that our liberal friends have suggested are "legal as long as they apply for asylum afterwards." I could probably rob a bank and it's ok as long as I "apply for asylum afterwards."

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From Al Miller@21:2/128 to aaron thomas on Friday, August 23, 2019 07:53:20
    1. "they" in my statement is the companies/corporations hiring immigrants... 2. immigrants have a year from their entry to file their

    So I've been wondering, why would you want businesses to be punished for hiring exploitables? Do we prefer to have them on public assistance than to be working? That way we can train them to be democrats?

    Illegal immigrants should not receive assistance on anything other than getting out of the country.

    Companies that employ them should be fined and shut down if they donÆt stop the behavior.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: The Dragons Den - Forest Hill, Md (21:2/128)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Aaron Thomas on Saturday, August 24, 2019 03:24:10
    On 08-23-19 10:56, Aaron Thomas <=-
    spoke to Mark Lewis about Re: The manifesto <=-


    It's not fair to call people who break the law "immigrants" or
    "migrants." That's like calling drug dealers "pharmacists."

    Consider that the only law they have violated has the same severity as jaywalking. Your analogy is seriously flawed.

    i want business to be punished for hiring known persons who have been

    Punished for what? It's not illegal to use loopholes to manipulate the law.

    They are not using loopholes -- they are violating the law, as well as
    aiding and abetting the undocumented workers to do so.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 03:26:44, 24 Aug 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to Al Miller on Saturday, August 24, 2019 08:48:55
    Companies that employ them should be fined and shut down if they donÆt stop the behavior.

    I agree with you, but why would democrats want the companies penalized? That only hurts their precious illegal immigrants.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to MARK LEWIS on Saturday, August 24, 2019 12:30:38
    On 2019 Aug 22 11:10:58, you wrote to me:

    what ""free ride""?? they're working aren't they? that makes them
    not freeloaders...

    While working a job is honorable, it's dishonorable to step on the
    backs of those who obeyed the law on their journey to the USA.

    who's backs are being stepped on?

    All of those who played by the rules.

    and those are whom??

    Everybody who entered the country legally.

    are they not allowed to work and pay taxes during the year
    they are here before they have to file?

    If they entered the country legally they cab work and pay texes right away.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Saturday, August 24, 2019 12:33:54
    you are also an "exploitable" ya know... stop trying to denigrate
    others
    like that... it is unbecoming...

    It's not fair to call people who break the law "immigrants" or "migrants." That's like calling drug dealers "pharmacists."

    i want business to be punished for hiring known persons who have been

    Punished for what? It's not illegal to use loopholes to manipulate the law.

    Um, it may be LEGAL but certainly isn't moral or ethical
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to aaron thomas on Saturday, August 24, 2019 14:39:26

    On 2019 Aug 23 10:56:58, you wrote to me:

    you are also an "exploitable" ya know... stop trying to denigrate
    others like that... it is unbecoming...

    It's not fair to call people who break the law "immigrants" or "migrants."

    no one is other than you lot...

    besides, they, law breakers and immigrants, are two separate things and one can
    be a member of both or a member of only one... stop trying to twist things around...

    That's like calling drug dealers "pharmacists."

    they may be if they have a degree in pharmaceuticals... there were some pharmacists near here that were busted for growing pot some years back...

    i want business to be punished for hiring known persons who have been

    Punished for what? It's not illegal to use loopholes to manipulate the
    law.

    they're not manipulating the law... they are breaking it by hiring illegals who
    are not elegible for hire...

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... We have movie sign!!!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to aaron thomas on Saturday, August 24, 2019 14:34:20

    On 2019 Aug 24 08:48:54, you wrote to Al Miller:

    Companies that employ them should be fined and shut down if they
    donÆt stop the behavior.

    I agree with you, but why would democrats

    who are you calling a democrat?

    want the companies penalized? That only hurts their precious illegal immigrants.

    no... you're putting words in others' mouths, again... besides the fact that they belong to no one so they are not "their precious illegal immigrants"...

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... Lawyers could be an important source of protein.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to BOB ACKLEY on Saturday, August 24, 2019 14:36:34

    On 2019 Aug 24 12:30:38, you wrote to me:

    All of those who played by the rules.

    and those are whom??

    Everybody who entered the country legally.

    ok so once again tell us how someone enters the USA illegally, please...

    are they not allowed to work and pay taxes during the year
    they are here before they have to file?

    If they entered the country legally they cab work and pay texes right
    away.

    see above and explain how one is to legally enter the USA...

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... Canada's parliament meets 60 miles SE of Bullies Acre.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Al Miller@21:2/128 to aaron thomas on Saturday, August 24, 2019 19:49:50
    Companies that employ them should be fined and shut down if they donÆt stop the behavior.

    I agree with you, but why would democrats want the companies penalized? That only hurts their precious illegal immigrants.

    Lol.... canÆt help there.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: The Dragons Den - Forest Hill, Md (21:2/128)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Sunday, August 25, 2019 21:40:00
    On 08-23-19, AARON THOMAS said to TIM RICHARDSON:



    Illegal aliens definitely *know* there is a system in place to legally


    I think so too, but some of our Fido friends are suggesting that they are AT>just as innocent as migratory birds who come for a short stay.


    Yeah....well here's some info that throws water on that suggestion....be right back; I gotta hunt something up.......


    Ok, here's some info that knocks the liberal's `innocent migrants' notion into a cocked hat:


    First of all very few Americans know the real extent of fraudulent ID use by illegal aliens.


    Through Freedom of Information lawsuits it was learned that around 39 million Americans had their identities stolen by illegal aliens working in the United States during Hussein Obama's administration.


    There is (or was) what is known as a `no match' letter that was sent to employers who had employees who's SSN info didn't `match' up with known or pending SSN information.


    When Hussein Obama implimented the `Defered Action fo Child Arrivals (DACA) he discontinued the `no-match' letters practice.


    As a result there were MILLIONS of SSN's that were fraudulently used for employment....credit cards....loans....etc etc.....


    A little known fact.....every year there are untold numbers of taxpayers made to defend against the IRS over unreported income. Income they didn't know they were (supposedly) making due to someone out there using their SSN and
    accounts.


    Social Security numbers of young people are especially valued in that young people don't use their numbers until they begin their employment history in their late teens or early twenties.


    By then....an illegal alien has been using their SSN fraudulently for many years already.


    The BIGGEST problem is we have had presidents, and still have members of both houses of Congress, who will NOT enforce our laws.


    I don't know what you mean? How can Congress enforce the law?


    They will not stiffen the laws already in place. They will also not stop confirming judges they know will come up with some work-around decisions that circumvent the `intent' of laws that are already in place.




    I've been
    hearing stories about liberal criminal court justices & city officials who AT>won't enforce the laws- those who refuse to cooperate with ICE, helping AT>illegals escape through back doors, etc.



    Sneaking in across a desert area, climbing over a fence, mobbing a border station and running into the country, then scattering in all directions,


    These things you've mentioned are things that our liberal friends have AT>suggested are "legal as long as they apply for asylum afterwards." I could AT>probably rob a bank and it's ok as long as I "apply for asylum AT>afterwards."


    Like stealing coffee and donuts from a 7-11 and saying you intended to pay `afterwards'.


    Leftie liberals like to tell people `illegal immigration' is a "victimless crime".


    It's not!


    BTW....I have certain info that sheds light on why Mexico does nothing to stem the flow of illegals across our southern border. Gotta hunt it up.








    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to MARK LEWIS on Saturday, August 31, 2019 12:55:58
    On 2019 Aug 24 12:30:38, you wrote to me:

    All of those who played by the rules.

    and those are whom??

    Everybody who entered the country legally.

    ok so once again tell us how someone enters the USA illegally, please...


    One crosses the border without DIRST getting permission to do so
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to BOB ACKLEY on Sunday, September 01, 2019 11:19:36

    On 2019 Aug 31 12:55:58, you wrote to me:

    All of those who played by the rules.

    and those are whom??

    Everybody who entered the country legally.

    ok so once again tell us how someone enters the USA illegally,
    please...

    One crosses the border without DIRST getting permission to do so

    that is NOT a requirement... if you think it is, you need to study immigration law some more...

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... Cats and Women: no matter what you tell them, they do as they please
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Al Miller@1:261/1036 to mark lewis on Sunday, September 01, 2019 20:21:09
    that is NOT a requirement... if you think it is, you need to study immigration law some more...

    A border crossing in the U.S. will be subject to the authority exercised through the Department of
    Homeland Security, a U.S. governmental federal agency, through various administrative and
    enforcement divisions. Accordingly, a border crossing which occurs in the manner generally meant
    by this terminology, which is to say illegally, will accordingly come under the coverage of the U.S.
    Border Patrol, as is tasked with preventing such occurrences.
    If the particular instance of an unlawful border crossing occurs with success, then the illegally
    resident immigrant to the U.S. can then become subject to the effort of deportation proceedings
    transacted by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: The Dragons Den - Forest Hill, Md (1:261/1036)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Al Miller on Monday, September 02, 2019 10:27:38

    On 2019 Sep 01 20:21:08, you wrote to me:

    that is NOT a requirement... if you think it is, you need to study
    immigration law some more...

    A border crossing in the U.S. will be subject to the authority exercised

    [...]

    i see words but no citation...

    https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states

    ----->8 snip 8<-----
    To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status *regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status*. ----->8 snip 8<-----

    emphasis mine...

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... I don't patronize bunny rabbits.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Al Miller@1:261/1036 to mark lewis on Monday, September 02, 2019 18:28:10
    ----->8 snip 8<-----
    To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status *regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status*. ----->8 snip 8<-----

    emphasis mine...


    From the same site: https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/q uestions-and-answers-asylum-
    eligibility-and-applications


    You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for
    asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United
    States.

    See the port of entry part......
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: The Dragons Den - Forest Hill, Md (1:261/1036)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Al Miller on Monday, September 02, 2019 20:43:52

    On 2019 Sep 02 18:28:10, you wrote to me:

    See the port of entry part......

    so did you miss the

    regardless of how you arrived in the United States

    part?

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... Society for the Prevention of Sharon Stevens having any Frangoes.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Al Miller@1:261/1036 to Al Miller on Monday, September 02, 2019 18:33:01
    ----->8 snip 8<-----
    To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status *regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status*. ----->8 snip 8<-----

    emphasis mine...


    From the same site: https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/q uestions-and-answers-asylum-
    eligibility-and-applications


    You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for
    asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United
    States.

    See the port of entry part......
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: The Dragons Den - Forest Hill, Md (1:261/1036)
  • From Al Miller@1:261/1036 to Al Miller on Monday, September 02, 2019 18:33:45

    You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for
    asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United
    States.

    See the port of entry part......

    Wow feeling slow today - ôor in the UNited Statesö
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: The Dragons Den - Forest Hill, Md (1:261/1036)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to mark lewis on Tuesday, September 03, 2019 18:10:46
    On 02 Sep 2019, mark lewis said the following...

    On 2019 Sep 01 20:21:08, you wrote to me:

    that is NOT a requirement... if you think it is, you need to study
    immigration law some more...

    A border crossing in the U.S. will be subject to the authority exerci

    [...]

    i see words but no citation...

    https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum ed-states

    ----->8 snip 8<-----
    To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status *regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status*. ----->8 snip 8<-----

    emphasis mine...

    As you can see it is a more complicated then you have indicated.

    All of this can be verified as the correct procedure at the following website https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/affirmative-asylum-pr ocess
    or in smaller form
    https://tinyurl.com/y7ep3q26

    The Affirmative Asylum Process

    The following steps explain how you apply for asylum in the United States through the affirmative asylum process. The information in this section will not apply to you if you are seeking asylum through the defensive asylum process, meaning you are in removal proceedings before an immigration judge.

    For information about the defensive asylum process, see the Obtaining Asylum
    in the United States page on USCIS.gov.

    STEP ONE: Arrive in the U.S.
    To apply for asylum in the U.S., you must be physically present in the U.S.


    STEP TWO: Apply for Asylum
    To apply for asylum, you should file Form I-589, Application for Asylum and
    for Withholding of Removal, with USCIS within one year of your last arrival
    in the United States (unless you qualify for an exception to the one-year filing deadline).

    Do not submit a completed fingerprint card (FD-258) or fingerprint fee with your application. Your application will be accepted without the fingerprint card attached.

    More information about how to file your application can be found in the instructions for Form I-589 (PDF, 156 KB).

    For information on asylum eligibility, see the Asylum Eligibility and Applications page on USCIS.gov.


    STEP THREE: Fingerprinting and Background/Security Checks
    You should read the ASC Appointment Notice and take it with you to your fingerprinting appointment at the ASC. You do not need to pay a
    fingerprinting fee as an asylum applicant.

    If you are also requesting asylum status for your spouse and children and
    they are with you in the U.S., they will need to go with you to your ASC appointment.

    More information is available on our Preparing for Your Biometric Services Appointment page.


    STEP FOUR: Receive an Interview Notice
    Depending on where you live, we will schedule you for an interview with an asylum officer either at one of the eight asylum offices, the two asylum sub-offices, or at a USCIS field office (ΓÇ£circuit ride locationΓÇ¥). For
    more information about USCIS field and asylum offices, visit our Find A USCIS Office page. Your interview notice will tell you the date, location, and time of your asylum interview.

    As of January 29, 2018, the USCIS Asylum Division is scheduling asylum interviews in the following order of priority:*

    First priority: Applications that were scheduled for an interview, but the interview had to be rescheduled at the applicantΓÇÖs request or the needs of USCIS; Second priority: Applications that have been pending 21 days or less since
    filing;
    Third priority: All other pending affirmative asylum applications will be scheduled for interviews starting with newer filings and working back towards older filings.

    *This scheduling approach was first established following the asylum reforms
    of 1995 (PDF, 22 KB), and was in place previously for 20 years.

    Workload priorities related to border enforcement may affect our ability to schedule all new applications for an interview within 21 days.

    Asylum office directors may consider, on a case-by-case basis, an urgent request to be scheduled for an interview outside of the priority order listed above. Please submit any urgent interview scheduling requests in writing to
    the asylum office with jurisdiction over your case. Go to the USCIS Service
    and Office Locator page for contact information.

    For asylum applicants who live far from an asylum office or an asylum sub-office, asylum offices schedule asylum interviews at USCIS field offices ("circuit ride" locations) as resources permit. Please contact the asylum office with jurisdiction over your case for more detailed information.

    See Affirmative Asylum Interview Scheduling for more information.


    STEP FIVE: Interview
    You may bring an attorney or accredited representative to the interview. You must also bring your spouse and any children seeking derivative asylum
    benefits to the interview.

    If you cannot proceed with the interview in English you must bring an interpreter.

    The interview will generally last about an hour, although the time may vary depending on the case. You may also bring witnesses to testify on your behalf.

    For more information about your asylum interview, see our Web page on
    Preparing for Your Asylum Interview.


    STEP SIX: Asylum Officer Makes Determination on Eligibility and Supervisory Asylum Officer Reviews the Decision

    You must meet the definition of a refugee in order to be eligible for asylum.

    The asylum officer will determine whether you:

    Are eligible to apply for asylum,
    Meet the definition of a refugee in section 101(a)(42)(A) of the INA, and
    Are barred from being granted asylum under section 208(b)(2) of the INA.

    A supervisory asylum officer reviews the asylum officerΓÇÖs decision to ensure


    STEP SEVEN: Receive Decision
    In most cases, you will return to the asylum office to pick up the decision
    two weeks after the asylum officer interviewed you.

    Longer processing times may be required if you:

    Are currently in valid immigration status,
    Were interviewed at a USCIS field office,
    Have pending security checks, or
    Have a case that is being reviewed by asylum division staff at USCIS headquarters.

    We will normally mail your decision to you in these situations.

    For more information on the types of asylum decisions issued by USCIS, see
    our Web page on Types of Asylum Decisions.

    Additional information on the affirmative asylum process is available on our Resources for Asylum Applicants page.

    You can check your case status online. All you need is the receipt number
    that we mailed you after you filed your application. Start here: uscis.gov/casestatus.

    Additionally...

    Under United States law, a refugee is someone who:
    Is located outside of the United States
    Is of special humanitarian concern to the United States
    Demonstrates that they were persecuted or fear persecution due to race,
    religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a particular
    social group.

    Is not firmly resettled in another country
    Is admissible to the United States

    . ______
    _[]_||__||
    { Gregory |
    /-00-----00'-;

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Al Miller@1:261/1036 to mark lewis on Tuesday, September 03, 2019 19:26:13

    On 2019 Sep 02 18:28:10, you wrote to me:

    See the port of entry part......

    so did you miss the

    regardless of how you arrived in the United States

    part?


    Uh - Yes I did :)
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: The Dragons Den - Forest Hill, Md (1:261/1036)
  • From Richard Falken to Al Miller on Wednesday, September 04, 2019 13:57:42
    Re: Re: The manifesto
    By: Al Miller to mark lewis on Mon Sep 02 2019 06:28 pm

    You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for
    asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United
    States.

    I am not familiar with USA laws there, but don't you need a
    compelling reason for asylum to be granted after you ask for
    it? The whole purpose of asylum is to offer protection to people
    who is being chased by regimes that don't respect human rights
    very much.

    I would expect that if I crossed a border without invitation
    and requested asylum, they would ask me why I want it. I would
    also expect that if I told that the Great Leader of some
    communist regime wanted to imprison me because I wrote an ugly
    article about he, I would be granted asylum. What I am not sure
    I would get is asylum for being poor or unemployed in my country
    of origin.
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Al Miller on Wednesday, September 04, 2019 21:41:44

    On 2019 Sep 03 19:26:12, you wrote to me:

    See the port of entry part......

    so did you miss the

    regardless of how you arrived in the United States

    part?


    Uh - Yes I did :)

    you're not the first and won't be the last... even if it has specific emphasis added as i did to the statement with the * bold attributes ;)

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... PC GP30 hits bus load of smurfs...Conrail Blue is born!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Richard Falken on Friday, September 06, 2019 02:00:00
    On 09-04-19 13:57, Richard Falken <=-
    spoke to Al Miller about Re: The manifesto <=-

    Curious -- what country are you from? You are posting from a USA BBS (perfectly ok) but sound like you are from another country based on your comments.

    You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for
    asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United
    States.

    I am not familiar with USA laws there, but don't you need a
    compelling reason for asylum to be granted after you ask for
    it? The whole purpose of asylum is to offer protection to people
    who is being chased by regimes that don't respect human rights
    very much.

    True.

    I would expect that if I crossed a border without invitation
    and requested asylum, they would ask me why I want it. I would
    also expect that if I told that the Great Leader of some
    communist regime wanted to imprison me because I wrote an ugly
    article about he, I would be granted asylum.

    Also true.

    What I am not sure
    I would get is asylum for being poor or unemployed in my country
    of origin.

    Also true.

    However, if your reason for requesting asylum was because the gangs
    where you were told you that you either had to let your ten year old son
    be initiated into the gang or that they would kill your entire family --
    that should be enough. In the regions where the southern immigrates are
    coming from, that is not atypical. The region is more controlled by the
    gangs than by the government.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:05:55, 06 Sep 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Richard Falken to Dale Shipp on Friday, September 06, 2019 06:50:20
    Re: Re: The manifesto
    By: Dale Shipp to Richard Falken on Fri Sep 06 2019 02:00 am

    Curious -- what country are you from? You are posting from a USA BBS (perfectly ok) but sound like you are from another country based on your comments.

    Funny thing, I am a Spaniard, and I am connecting to
    vert.synchro.net using a shell service in Northern
    Europe.

    Gotta love the Internet, it makes the world so small.
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to Richard Falken on Saturday, September 07, 2019 01:23:10
    I am not familiar with USA laws there, but don't you need a
    compelling reason for asylum to be granted after you ask for
    it? The whole purpose of asylum is to offer protection to people

    The USA is so liberal that we say what you just said, but then we turn our backs and let the fake refugees do as they please; even let them get away
    with murder because it's more liberal than putting them in jail.

    Meanwhile, people who really are trying to escape oppressive governments can't walk to the USA; so they die while the fake ones get a free ride.

    I'm not in agreement with illegal immigration, but due to our flawed liberal laws, the best thing for real refugees to do is to swim here from the middle east & enter from Mexico. With all the raping and pillaging being done by our central american neighbors, we don't have time to review any actual asylum requests. Sneaking in is perfectly fine and the time couldn't be better.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to aaron thomas on Saturday, September 07, 2019 09:16:14
    On 2019 Sep 07 01:23:10, you wrote to Richard Falken:

    I am not familiar with USA laws there, but don't you need a
    compelling reason for asylum to be granted after you ask for it? The
    whole purpose of asylum is to offer protection to people

    The USA is so liberal

    do you even know what liberal is?
    do you call everyone who is left of your personal views a liberal?
    do you even realize that the entire US political spectrum is much further right
    that it was in nixon's day?

    if nixon was alive today, he'd say that our entire political spectrum is ultra-right... "you kids" really don't have a clue what is liberal or conservative... you just like throwing terms around in some misguided attempt at stirring controversy to get a laugh...

    do you even understand that:
    a conservative democrat and a liberal republican are virtually the same?
    the only real difference is the blue "D" or red "R" they carry?
    that those two views overlap in many ways?

    do you even understand that there's more than just "left" and "right" in politics?

    once again, i invite you and others to visit the political compass site and take their test to see where you lay in the spectrum based on the questions given...

    https://www.politicalcompass.org/

    i've posted it before but no one has responded that they did visit the site, that they took the test, nor has anyone even given a hint as to their score... could the test be better? sure... there is no middle ground for those questions
    where someone may not know the topic and don't care one way or the other about it... is the test accurate? for what it endeavors to graph, sure... it works for what it is intended to do...

    i'm old enough to remember that virtually every pickup truck had a gun rack in the back window... when people fought with their fists instead of grabbing for a gun or knife... i'm old enough to remember carrying a hunting rifle or shotgun to school so i could hunt small game on the way home... i'm old enough to remember when helping others was a good thing... i'm old enough to remember when "red" was a sign of communism... i'm old enough to remember when the N-word applied to all races/colors/creeds and meant liar, thief, con-man...

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... Used Cars: Why go elsewhere to be cheated? Come here first.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to mark lewis on Monday, September 09, 2019 01:54:59
    Hello mark,

    I am not familiar with USA laws there, but don't you need a >RF>>compelling reason for asylum to be granted after you ask for it? The >RF>>whole purpose of asylum is to offer protection to people

    The USA is so liberal

    do you even know what liberal is?

    Yes.

    do you call everyone who is left of your personal views a liberal?

    Yes.

    do you even realize that the entire US political spectrum is much further
    right that it was in nixon's day?

    That is only true because Donald Trump's three rivals for the
    Republican nomination are no longer in office.

    The latest Gallup Poll results show the job approval among
    Republicans for Donald Trump at 88%. Richard Nixon's best showing
    was 84% (among Republicans). Not sure what job approval rating
    George McGovern had, but he was never a Republican or a president.

    if nixon was alive today, he'd say that our entire political spectrum is
    ultra-right...

    Donald Trump is to the right of Richard Nixon.
    Mike Pence is to the right of Donald Trump.
    Anybody to the right of Mike Pence is off the chart.

    "you kids" really don't have a clue what is liberal or conservative...

    Richard Nixon was paranoid. But that never stopped him from
    playing "Give My Regards to Broadway" on piano at the Grand Ol' Opry.
    I'm just glad he never tried to sing it, unlike Margaret Truman.

    you just like throwing terms around in some misguided attempt at stirring
    controversy to get a laugh...

    Richard Nixon was the only president in history who has performed
    live at the Grand Ol' Opry.

    do you even understand that:
    a conservative democrat and a liberal republican are virtually the same?
    the only real difference is the blue "D" or red "R" they carry?
    that those two views overlap in many ways?

    George Wallace said that. He was right then. But that was decades
    ago, and is no longer true today. What we have now is neo-cons and
    neo-libs. Both groups are right-wing, the only difference being
    neo-libs are slightly less authoritarian than neo-cons.

    do you even understand that there's more than just "left" and "right" in
    politics?

    Relative to what? That is the question. Otherwise, such labels
    are meaningless.

    once again, i invite you and others to visit the political compass site and
    take their test to see where you lay in the spectrum based on the questions given...

    https://www.politicalcompass.org/

    Did you take the test? I did. And the results showed I was
    certifiable. Not only that, but I was allowed to print it, and
    frame it, proving that I have been officially certified.

    i've posted it before but no one has responded that they did visit the site,
    that they took the test, nor has anyone even given a hint as to their score...

    Okay. Time for Show & Tell.

    This document certifies that
    Mad Cajun
    inhabits the left libertarian quadrant of
    The Political Compass
    Sunday 8 September 2019

    Economic Left/Right: -6.25
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.08

    Your turn.

    could the test be better? sure...

    This is only a test ...
    This is only a test ...
    This is only a test ...

    there is no middle ground for those questions where someone may not know the
    topic and don't care one way or the other about it... is the test accurate? for what it endeavors to graph, sure... it works for what it is intended to do...

    There are other tests of this type that can be found online.
    One such test had a very strong slant towards libertarianism.
    Not very accurate, but loads of fun to take. :)

    i'm old enough to remember that virtually every pickup truck had a gun rack
    in the back window... when people fought with their fists instead of
    grabbing for a gun or knife... i'm old enough to remember carrying a
    hunting rifle or shotgun to school so i could hunt small game on the way home... i'm old enough to remember when helping others was a good thing... i'm old enough to remember when "red" was a sign of communism... i'm old enough to remember when the N-word applied to all races/colors/creeds and meant liar, thief, con-man...

    I'm old enough to remember having to tutor Native Americans whose
    only means of transportation to get to and from school was on a boat.

    --Lee

    --
    Every Bottom Needs A Top

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Al Miller@1:261/1036 to Dale Shipp on Monday, September 09, 2019 19:31:36
    > However, if your reason for requesting asylum was because the gangs
    where you were told you that you either had to let your ten year old son
    be initiated into the gang or that they would kill your entire family -- that should be enough. In the regions where the southern immigrates are coming from, that is not atypical. The region is more controlled by the gangs than by the government.

    So basically you want to allow anyone who can get to the US to be able to just become a citizen?

    I donÆt have an issue allowing people in that the country has a ôneedö for their skills. I don't like the
    idea of just allowing anyone that can make up any story to just be allowed in. It makes for a bunch
    of minimum wage people that we will likely all end up paying for in the long run.

    The next statement is for every decision we make and isnÆt directed at either party alone:

    Our country is going deeper in debt every year and until we balance the budget we need to think
    through the cost impact of these decisions or one day we wont have a country and all the cry
    babies saying how bad the USA is right now will see what bad really is.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: The Dragons Den - Forest Hill, Md (1:261/1036)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Al Miller on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 02:02:00
    On 09-09-19 19:31, Al Miller <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: The manifesto <=-


    However, if your reason for requesting asylum was because the gangs
    where you were told you that you either had to let your ten year old son
    be initiated into the gang or that they would kill your entire family -- that should be enough. In the regions where the southern immigrates are coming from, that is not atypical. The region is more controlled by the gangs than by the government.

    So basically you want to allow anyone who can get to the US to be able
    to just become a citizen?

    I never said anyone. I said those who have a legitimate reason for
    seeking asylum. In some cases that is a real fear for the safety of
    themselves and their children. The USA has laws that allow such people
    to appeal for asylum once they enter the country and for a judge to hear
    their case to decide if it is acceptable.

    I donÆt have an issue allowing people in that the country has a ôneedö
    for their skills. I don't like the
    idea of just allowing anyone that can make up any story to just be
    allowed in. It makes for a bunch
    of minimum wage people that we will likely all end up paying for in
    the long run.

    It makes for a bunch of people who are willing and able to work and
    contribute to the economy. Who do you think picks your fruit and
    vegetables in the fields. Who do you think does the cleaning and other
    low level jobs in the hotel industry -- including Trump's golf courses.
    Once they are here, "these people" usually prove to be a benefit to
    society. They pay taxes, including social security and medicare.

    The next statement is for every decision we make and isnÆt directed at either party alone:

    Our country is going deeper in debt every year and until we balance
    the budget we need to think
    through the cost impact of these decisions or one day we wont have a country and all the cry
    babies saying how bad the USA is right now will see what bad really
    is.

    The immigrates are not the cause of increasing national debt. The cause
    for that are things like military spending and tax cuts for the wealthy.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:12:19, 10 Sep 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Dale Shipp on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 00:23:11
    Hello Dale,

    However, if your reason for requesting asylum was because the gangs
    where you were told you that you either had to let your ten year old son
    be initiated into the gang or that they would kill your entire family -- >>that should be enough. In the regions where the southern immigrates are >>coming from, that is not atypical. The region is more controlled by the >>gangs than by the government.

    So basically you want to allow anyone who can get to the US to be able >AM>to just become a citizen?

    I never said anyone. I said those who have a legitimate reason for
    seeking asylum. In some cases that is a real fear for the safety of >themselves and their children. The USA has laws that allow such people
    to appeal for asylum once they enter the country and for a judge to hear >their case to decide if it is acceptable.

    Many people may have a legitimate reason for seeking asylum, but
    are unable to show or document their reasons. In addition, just
    because they have a legitimate reason(s) for seeking asylum does
    not mean the US will grant them asylum, or even give them fair
    consideration.

    The only thing the US does is allow them to file a claim, and to
    grant them an appeal if their original claim is denied.

    I donÆt have an issue allowing people in that the country has a ôneedö >AM>for their skills. I don't like the
    idea of just allowing anyone that can make up any story to just be >AM>allowed in. It makes for a bunch
    of minimum wage people that we will likely all end up paying for in
    the long run.

    It makes for a bunch of people who are willing and able to work and >contribute to the economy. Who do you think picks your fruit and
    vegetables in the fields. Who do you think does the cleaning and other
    low level jobs in the hotel industry -- including Trump's golf courses.
    Once they are here, "these people" usually prove to be a benefit to
    society. They pay taxes, including social security and medicare.

    Documented workers are fine, as they are doing so legally. It is
    undocumented workers that are a problem. Even more so, employers who
    continue to hire them, and not be prosecuted.

    The next statement is for every decision we make and isnÆt directed at >AM>either party alone:

    Our country is going deeper in debt every year and until we balance
    the budget we need to think
    through the cost impact of these decisions or one day we wont have a >AM>country and all the cry
    babies saying how bad the USA is right now will see what bad really
    is.

    The immigrates are not the cause of increasing national debt. The cause
    for that are things like military spending and tax cuts for the wealthy.

    Statistics prove your point.

    --Lee

    --
    Change Is Cumming

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Al Miller@1:261/1036 to Dale Shipp on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 19:28:27


    So basically you want to allow anyone who can get to the US to be able to just become a citizen?

    I never said anyone. I said those who have a legitimate reason for
    seeking asylum. In some cases that is a real fear for the safety of themselves and their children. The USA has laws that allow such people
    to appeal for asylum once they enter the country and for a judge to hear their case to decide if it is acceptable.

    No issue here

    I donÆt have an issue allowing people in that the country has a ôneedö for their skills. I don't like the
    idea of just allowing anyone that can make up any story to just be allowed in. It makes for a bunch
    of minimum wage people that we will likely all end up paying for in
    the long run.

    It makes for a bunch of people who are willing and able to work and contribute to the economy. Who do you think picks your fruit and
    vegetables in the fields. Who do you think does the cleaning and other
    low level jobs in the hotel industry -- including Trump's golf courses.
    Once they are here, "these people" usually prove to be a benefit to
    society. They pay taxes, including social security and medicare.

    If that were true I'd be fine but they make minimum wage and need government assistance which guess who pays for?

    Not sure what Trump has to do with this discussion other then to bring liberals together screaming at the moon and crying their eyes out. His opinion doesn't matter to me.

    The next statement is for every decision we make and isnÆt directed at either party alone:

    Our country is going deeper in debt every year and until we balance
    the budget we need to think
    through the cost impact of these decisions or one day we wont have a country and all the cry
    babies saying how bad the USA is right now will see what bad really
    is.

    The immigrates are not the cause of increasing national debt. The cause
    for that are things like military spending and tax cuts for the wealthy.

    If they cost me a penny I don't want them here, if they pay their way without government assistance and they don't work illegally I'm fine with them. Its really that simple.

    I want our budget balanced before we take on more problems and they are not all plus and no minus.

    If we stop spending on the military we wont be safe - not looking to debate that with you just pointing out that I disagree.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: The Dragons Den - Forest Hill, Md (1:261/1036)
  • From Al Miller@1:261/1036 to Lee Lofaso on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 19:43:14


    Documented workers are fine, as they are doing so legally. It is undocumented workers that are a problem. Even more so, employers who continue to hire them, and not be prosecuted.


    Now this I agree with.


    The immigrates are not the cause of increasing national debt. The cause >for that are things like military spending and tax cuts for the wealthy.

    Statistics prove your point.



    If you are telling me folks coming in and earning minimum wage picking my fruit don't cost me more money on the back end when they get welfare and have health problems I don't buy it and Without a balanced budget why spend anything supporting folks that migrate to our country illegally.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: The Dragons Den - Forest Hill, Md (1:261/1036)