• PD Zmodem

    From Mark Hofmann@1:261/1304 to All on Thursday, December 22, 2016 16:40:39

    Just recently saw PD Zmodem on the PC Micro website and was wondering if anyone
    has tested using this to solve the CRC issues that happen when using Mystic to front-end another BBS?

    That issue was just brought to my attention and figured I would ask. Will just
    go ahead and experiment soon, too.

    Thanks.

    - Mark

    --- WWIVToss v.1.51
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)
  • From Shawn Highfield@1:229/452.3 to Mark Hofmann on Friday, December 23, 2016 17:30:20

    Hello Mark!

    22 Dec 16 16:40, you wrote to all:

    when using Mystic to front-end another BBS?

    I mentioned this issue to you when you started. :) It's not
    mystic it's just how the stuff works, if you've got a couple of
    bounce points zmodem will always fail.

    Doesn't matter what you use as a front end... If you open another
    telnet session zmodem upload will never work. I've tried everything
    over the years.

    I sure hope you can prove me wrong (As I thought you already had!) ;)

    Shawn


    ... Chicken Little was right.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - www.tinysbbs.com (1:229/452.3)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to Mark Hofmann on Friday, December 23, 2016 21:28:00
    Just recently saw PD Zmodem on the PC Micro website and was wondering if anyone
    has tested using this to solve the CRC issues that happen when using Mystic to >front-end another BBS?

    What is different about it that might make one expect different results? Curious as I used to have a copy around here somewhere.

    Mike

    ---
    # SLMR 2.1a # "Dude! We have the power supreme!" - Butthead


    --- GTMail 1.26
    * Origin: CCO BBS * 502/875-8938 * capcity2.synchro.net (1:2320/105.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Mike Powell on Saturday, December 24, 2016 06:59:24

    On 2016 Dec 23 21:28:00, you wrote to Mark Hofmann:

    Just recently saw PD Zmodem on the PC Micro website and was wondering
    if anyone has tested using this to solve the CRC issues that happen
    when using Mystic to front-end another BBS?

    What is different about it that might make one expect different
    results? Curious as I used to have a copy around here somewhere.

    timings... the internal timers may be more lax allowing for longer transmission
    times before erroring out...

    as far as Tiny's comment about multiple telnet hops, it makes sense because telnet can be switched in modes so that things like zmodem will work... that mode switch isn't transmitted up the line to the next telnet package because the first one ate it when it reacted to it... remember, no one ever expected to
    be tunneling file transfer protocols within telnet sessions... that's why, from
    a command shell account, you always telneted and then opened a separate sz or rz connection for your files... they weren't done inside the telnet pipe...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I won't actively try to have you committed, although I won't oppose it.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Mark Hofmann@1:261/1304 to Mike Powell on Sunday, January 15, 2017 09:38:48
    What is different about it that might make one expect different results? Curious as I used to have a copy around here somewhere.

    Not really sure, but figured it was worth a shot.

    A few weeks ago, I was testing various ideas to get binary file transfers to work while using Mystic as a front-end. Here are the things I discovered:

    1) Text file transfers work fine.
    2) Binary transfers don't work (ZIP, etc).

    I tried to add this to the WWIV source code to try and force telnet into binary
    mode before the transfer:

    outcomch('\xFF');
    outcomch('\xFB');
    outcomch('\x0');


    Also tried this:

    outcomch((char)255);
    outcomch((char)251);
    outcomch((char)0);
    wait1(100);

    Neither had an effect, unfortunately. Basically what needs to happen is to have the telnet session in binary mode from the start. Transfers will work fine if that was the case based on what I have been reading and investigating.

    - Mark

    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)
  • From Mark Hofmann@1:261/1304 to Mark Lewis on Sunday, January 15, 2017 09:41:39
    as far as Tiny's comment about multiple telnet hops, it makes sense
    because telnet can be switched in modes so that things like zmodem will work... that mode switch isn't transmitted up the line to the next telnet package because the first one ate it when it reacted to it... remember,

    Correct, the very first telnet needs to be in binary mode for file transfers to
    work. I'm almost certain the one that needs to be edited is the telnet from the Mystic shuttle menu.

    The characters that display when you telnet from the shuttle do include some of
    those single bits that configure the telnet parameters. We just need that "set
    to binary mode" sequence added.

    - Mark

    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Mark Hofmann on Friday, January 20, 2017 08:54:10

    On 2017 Jan 15 09:41:38, you wrote to me:

    as far as Tiny's comment about multiple telnet hops, it makes sense
    because telnet can be switched in modes so that things like zmodem
    will work... that mode switch isn't transmitted up the line to the
    next telnet package because the first one ate it when it reacted to
    it... remember,

    Correct, the very first telnet needs to be in binary mode for file transfers to work.

    FWIW: AFAIK, the entire telnet chain needs to be in binary mode for tunneled file transfers to work properly...

    in other words, if there's five telnet hops between the user and the remote system, all five of those hops need to be initiated in binary mode...

    what do i mean by "telnet hops"? consider that you allow users to telnet out to
    other systems and those other systems also allow telnetting out...

    I'm almost certain the one that needs to be edited is the telnet from
    the Mystic shuttle menu.

    i have no clue how that would be done... i didn't even know mystic had a "shuttle" menu, whatever that is...

    The characters that display when you telnet from the shuttle do
    include some of those single bits that configure the telnet
    parameters. We just need that "set to binary mode" sequence added.

    or at least figure out how to pass those setting bits through to other telnets further down in the chain...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I am so smart I can do crossword puzzles without looking at the clues.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Mark Hofmann@1:261/1304 to Mark Lewis on Monday, January 23, 2017 13:04:31

    FWIW: AFAIK, the entire telnet chain needs to be in binary mode for tunneled file transfers to work properly...

    in other words, if there's five telnet hops between the user and the
    remote system, all five of those hops need to be initiated in binary mode...
    what do i mean by "telnet hops"? consider that you allow users to telnet out to other systems and those other systems also allow telnetting out...

    Correct, that is exactly what is going on. Even though I might be able to force binary telnet mode on my BBS, the telnet session that Mystic kicks off to
    the BBS would also need to be set to binary mode.

    Unfortunately, there is no control for that at the present time.

    - Mark

    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)
  • From Gene Buckle@1:138/142 to Mark Hofmann on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 06:28:32
    Re: Re: PD Zmodem
    By: Mark Hofmann to Mark Lewis on Mon Jan 23 2017 01:04 pm

    Correct, that is exactly what is going on. Even though I might be able to force binary telnet mode on my BBS, the telnet session that Mystic kicks off the BBS would also need to be set to binary mode.

    Unfortunately, there is no control for that at the present time.

    Each host should send an IAC DO TRANSMIT_BINARY. That assumes that the client is RFC compliant enough to obey the command of course. :)

    g.
    --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
    * Origin: The Retro Archive (1:138/142)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105.1 to Mark Hofmann on Saturday, January 28, 2017 10:32:00
    |Correct, that is exactly what is going on. Even though I might be able to |force binary telnet mode on my BBS, the telnet session that Mystic kicks off to
    |the BBS would also need to be set to binary mode.
    |
    |Unfortunately, there is no control for that at the present time.
    +-[MH=>ML]

    So this issue only affects telnet connections where you telnet to one
    system and then can telnet to the next, like with the mystic matrix menu or
    the SBBS "door" that lets you telnet to another system?

    I am pretty sure that I had zmodem working fine with telnet connections to
    my GT Power system back when folks telneted into the OS/2-VMODEM box
    directly (well, with at least my router and ISP in between). Now that I am
    not set up that way -- I have mystic set up on port 23, routing traffic to
    GT or SBBS -- they do not work.

    Mike

    ##Mmr 2.61(beta). !link MH 01-23-17 13:04


    --- GTMail 1.26
    * Origin: CCO BBS * 502/875-8938 * capcity2.synchro.net (1:2320/105.1)
  • From Mark Hofmann@1:261/1304 to Mike Powell on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 20:28:39
    So this issue only affects telnet connections where you telnet to one system and then can telnet to the next, like with the mystic matrix menu
    or the SBBS "door" that lets you telnet to another system?

    Yes, my example is the Mystic matrix menu and then it doing a telnet to another
    BBS from the menu.

    If you telnet directly to the BBS, binary transfers work fine. Using the matrix menu to the BBS, binary transfers don't work. Text based Zmodem transfers do work, however.

    - Mark

    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)