* Crossposted from: F-DOSInterne

Some time ago, we were discussing the total impossibility of uploading
files and message reply packets using zmodem when telnetting with a DOS
setup, no Windows involved at all. I don't know if anyone is even
lurking here anymore besides me, but I wanted to let people know that my resident wizard managed to accomplish the impossible, and now I AM able
to do zmodem uploads with my still totally DOS telnetting setup!!! I am cross-posting this to BBS Internet, where it may also be appropriate, and
to Bluewave Support (where we recently were discussing this as well). :)

Let him tell you what he did:
--------------------------
I have had trouble finding a DOS TelNet setup that could send a file using
ZModem over the TelNet link. Being a laid-off professional programmer, I had
time to look into the problem.
Access to the source for the WATTCP libraries made it possible to look at
the logic, turn on debug functions not normally available, and see what the
problem is.

To keep the story short, peering at TCP packet traces and comparing them to
the ZModem and TelNet documentation finally led me to realize the problem is
caused by the TelNet IAC character (0xff). I was using TCPPORT as the TelNet
interface for CONEX, and TCPPORT doesn't escape the IAC character on sends.
It doesn't handle IAC sequences on receive very well either. The ZModem part
was working to specification, the TelNet part wasn't.
I ended up writing my own version and called it TNPORT. It uses the WAT2001
library (current 16bit library) - older ones don't work with my ISP.

I suspect that this problem is present in a number of DOS TelNet interfaces
as they often freely borrow from each other.
-------------------------------

I'm back... I've tested this now on all sorts of BBS software, and it
works consistently... Wildcat ver 4 and 5, Synchronet, Mystic,
Renegade, and Telegard are the ones that I have access to at the moment
and have tested it on. It works a lot faster than the kermit I had been
using for u/l's, too... :) He's uploaded his program to Chowdanet BBS
already, so it should be available there.

ttyl neb

... coming to you from Rochester NY

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- ViaMAIL!/WC v1.60d
* Origin: Chowdanet (401-331-0615) telnet://chowdanet.com (1:323/120)

======>>> Nancy Backus, 1:323/120 wrote:

Originally to: All

* Crossposted from: F-DOSInterne

Some time ago, we were discussing the total impossibility of uploading
files and message reply packets using zmodem when telnetting with a DOS
setup, no Windows involved at all.


<<<====== end quote


What am I missing here? I can count about 5 DOS telnet programs right off the top of my head that have ZModem Ul/Dl capability.

Nancy...you lost me totally....what's the big deal here?

Jon
-=: FOTW-read your Fidonet On The Web! http://www.theheatsinkbbs.ca :=-
--- Internet Rex 2.29
* Origin: The gateway at The HeatSink BBS (1:134/703)

NANCY BACKUS wrote to ALL <=-

TE: telnet from DOS.

I'm back... I've tested this now on all sorts of BBS software,
and it works consistently... Wildcat ver 4 and 5, Synchronet,
Mystic, Renegade, and Telegard are the ones that I have access to
at the moment and have tested it on. It works a lot faster than
the kermit I had been using for u/l's, too... :) He's uploaded
his program to Chowdanet BBS already, so it should be available
there.

So what's the name of the file?
--- MultiMail/PBellDOS v0.42
* Origin: BBS Networks @ www.bbsnets.com 808-839-6036 (1:10/345)

What am I missing here? I can count about 5 DOS telnet
programs right off the top of my head that have ZModem Ul/Dl
capability.

Nancy...you lost me totally....what's the big deal here?

the deal is DOS... pure DOS... there are still many who do not run anything other than DOS... nancy is one of them...

)\/(ark
* Origin: (1:3634/12)

What am I missing here? I can count about 5 DOS telnet programs right off top of my head that have ZModem Ul/Dl capability.

something about 16 bit blah blah.. i use mtel, which is win32. maybe i'm exempt. either way, i remember being able to do it while i still had win98.

|07 --haliphax |15//|07rMRS
|02 cotm.dyndns.org
|07 vanguard mods
--- Mystic BBS v1.07.3 (Win32)
* Origin: constipation of the mind :: cotm.dyndns.org (1:2800/18)

What am I missing here? I can count about 5 DOS telnet
programs right off top of my head that have ZModem
Ul/Dl capability.

something about 16 bit blah blah..

no, its about systems running pure DOS environments like MSDOS 6.22 and using the addon TCP/IP network stacks, tools, and apps...

)\/(ark
* Origin: (1:3634/12)

mark lewis wrote to Jon Watson:

What am I missing here? I can count about 5 DOS telnet
programs right off the top of my head that have ZModem Ul/Dl capability.

Nancy...you lost me totally....what's the big deal here?

the deal is DOS... pure DOS... there are still many who do not run anything other than DOS... nancy is one of them...

Nah..still don't get it. I remember using Telix and..hmm...what was the name of
that other one...before I ever loaded Windows 3.1 on my computer. Hell, even Ripterm was a plain vanilla DOS program, wasn't it?

Damn...what was the name of that other term prog....I used it a lot...had
it's
own host mode.....hmmm..Procomm? Can't remember...but it had Zmodem....

Oh well, either way - it doesn't appear that I'm missing something - this appears to be "non-news".

Jon

- HeatSink
MFWIC; The HeatSink BBS
Calgary, Alberta, Canada, eh?
--- MBSE BBS v0.61.4 (GNU/Linux-i386)
* Origin: telnet://TheHeatsinkBBS.ca -=Calgary,AB,Canada =- (1:134/703)

haliphax wrote to Jon Watson:

What am I missing here? I can count about 5 DOS telnet programs right

off

top of my head that have ZModem Ul/Dl capability.

something about 16 bit blah blah.. i use mtel, which is win32. maybe i'm exempt. either way, i remember being able to do it while i still had
win98.

Yeah..shrug...I don't see the big deal here. As I posted elsewhere, I
remember
UL/DL with Zmodem long before I ever owned a copy of any version of Windows. think a 386sx 25 with a 1200baud modem was the first term box I ever used...well, it you don't count the Commodore 64 with the acoustic coupler modem running at 300 baud in 1985 :)

Jon


- HeatSink
MFWIC; The HeatSink BBS
Calgary, Alberta, Canada, eh?
--- MBSE BBS v0.61.4 (GNU/Linux-i386)
* Origin: telnet://TheHeatsinkBBS.ca -=Calgary,AB,Canada =- (1:134/703)

I'm back... I've tested this now on all sorts of BBS software, and it
works consistently... Wildcat ver 4 and 5, Synchronet, Mystic,
Renegade, and Telegard are the ones that I have access to at the moment

Hi Nancy,
Feel free to try it on an EleBBS system at telnet://country-computer.net

Later...
---
* Origin: Country Computer: www.country-computer.net (1:154/288)

What am I missing here? I can count about 5 DOS
telnet programs right off the top of my head
that have ZModem Ul/Dl capability.

Nancy...you lost me totally....what's the big
deal here?

the deal is DOS... pure DOS... there are still many
who do not run anything other than DOS... nancy is
one of them...

Nah..still don't get it. I remember using Telix
and..hmm...what was the name of that other one...before

procomm? qmodem? {COMMO}?

I ever loaded Windows 3.1 on my computer. Hell, even
Ripterm was a plain vanilla DOS program, wasn't it?

yes but they weren't used over a telnet connection...

Damn...what was the name of that other term prog....I
used it a lot...had it's own host mode.....hmmm..
Procomm? Can't remember...but it had Zmodem....

most all terminal programs had some sort of host mode or scripting ability to create one...

Oh well, either way - it doesn't appear that I'm
missing something - this appears to be "non-news".

but you are missing the important part... you are missing the fact that you/we used to run our terminals directly over the phone lines but with today's technology, they are being used as telnet terminals which means that they have to run encapsulated within the TCP/IP and telnet streams...

)\/(ark
* Origin: (1:3634/12)

What am I missing here? I can count about 5 DOS
telnet programs right off top of my head that
have ZModem Ul/Dl capability.

something about 16 bit blah blah.. i use mtel, which
is win32. maybe i'm exempt. either way, i remember
being able to do it while i still had win98.

Yeah..shrug...I don't see the big deal here. As I posted
elsewhere, I remember UL/DL with Zmodem long before I
ever owned a copy of any version of Windows.

but you didn't use them as your telnet terminal...

think a 386sx 25 with a 1200baud modem was the first
term box I ever used...

now, take that box with DOS 6.22 on it and put the TCP/IP networking stack on it... that networking stack will likely use either a network card or the modem for the connection just like we see now... now, on that pure DOS box with TCP/IP networking, what do you use to telnet with?

)\/(ark
* Origin: (1:3634/12)

======>>> mark lewis, 1:3634/12 wrote:


but you are missing the important part... you are missing the fact that you/we used to run our terminals directly over the phone lines but with today's technology, they are being used as telnet terminals which means that they have to run encapsulated within the TCP/IP and telnet streams...


<<<====== end quote


You're right - I did miss that. That's why I was asking in the beginning "what am I missing?" Now that you mention the telnet aspect...you're probably right -
I dont' recall doing a telnet ul or dl prior to windows....

Jon
-FOTW: read your
Fidonet On The Web!
http://www.theheatsinkbbs.ca :=-
--- Internet Rex 2.29
* Origin: The gateway at The HeatSink BBS (1:134/703)

Damn...what was the name of that other term prog....I used it a lot...had it's
own host mode.....hmmm..Procomm? Can't remember...but it had Zmodem....

terminate? communique?

|07 --haliphax |15//|07rMRS
|02 cotm.dyndns.org
|07 vanguard mods
--- Mystic BBS v1.07.3 (Win32)
* Origin: constipation of the mind :: cotm.dyndns.org (1:2800/18)

something about 16 bit blah blah..

no, its about systems running pure DOS environments like MSDOS 6.22 and us the addon TCP/IP network stacks, tools, and apps...

yeah. 16 bit dos as opposed to 32 bit windows.

|07 --haliphax |15//|07rMRS
|02 cotm.dyndns.org
|07 vanguard mods
--- Mystic BBS v1.07.3 (Win32)
* Origin: constipation of the mind :: cotm.dyndns.org (1:2800/18)

======>>> mark lewis, 1:3634/12 wrote:


now, take that box with DOS 6.22 on it and put the TCP/IP networking stack on it... that networking stack will likely use either a network card or the modem for the connection just like we see now... now, on that pure DOS box with TCP/IP
networking, what do you use to telnet with?


<<<====== end quote


Yup..now I understand......

Jon
-FOTW: read your
Fidonet On The Web!
http://www.theheatsinkbbs.ca :=-
--- Internet Rex 2.29
* Origin: The gateway at The HeatSink BBS (1:134/703)

am I missing?" Now that you mention the telnet aspect...you're probably ri - I dont' recall doing a telnet ul or dl prior to windows....

i do, but.. nah. shit. it was linux. :D

|07 --haliphax |15//|07rMRS
|02 cotm.dyndns.org
|07 vanguard mods
--- Mystic BBS v1.07.3 (Win32)
* Origin: constipation of the mind :: cotm.dyndns.org (1:2800/18)

======>>>> mark lewis, 1:3634/12 wrote:

but you are missing the important part... you are missing the
fact that you/we
used to run our terminals directly over the phone lines but
with today's
technology, they are being used as telnet terminals which
means that they have
to run encapsulated within the TCP/IP and telnet streams...

<<<====== end quote

damn... there you go stealing my words right outta my mouth again ;)

You're right - I did miss that. That's why I was asking in the
beginning "what am I missing?"

sorry... thought it was straight forward... 'specially since the original article/message was talking about telneting ;)

Now that you mention the telnet aspect...you're probably
right - I dont' recall doing a telnet ul or dl prior to
windows....

yeah, many folk didn't... if they did, it was generally to a "*nix prompt account"... in those cases, you'd do a "double transfer" of a file... once from
the remote machine to the machine you were telneted in to and then you'd run sz
(send zmodem) on the telneted to machine to send the file on to your local machine... but that's just a bit different than what has to be done today cause
in that case, the xfer is not inside the telnet stream...

)\/(ark
* Origin: (1:3634/12)

something about 16 bit blah blah..

no, its about systems running pure DOS environments
like MSDOS 6.22 and use the addon TCP/IP network
stacks, tools, and apps...

yeah. 16 bit dos as opposed to 32 bit windows.

as long as you realize that it is not limited just to 16 bit stuffs ;)

)\/(ark
* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Quoting Jon Watson to Haliphax on 10-13-04 21:57 <=-

Yeah..shrug...I don't see the big deal here. As I posted elsewhere, I remember
UL/DL with Zmodem long before I ever owned a copy of any version of Windows. think a 386sx 25 with a 1200baud modem was the first term box
I ever used...well, it you don't count the Commodore 64 with the
acoustic coupler modem running at 300 baud in 1985 :)

Well, yes. Before telnet, I was able to do zmodem transfers both ways
no problem. That was dial-up, and yes, pure DOS... I STILL am not
using any form of Windows for my bbsing, and now have to do it all via
telnet. It was the *combination* of factors - purely DOS, telnet, and
zmodem uploads - that no longer worked. With the new TNPORT to connect
Conex to the bbs, I now AM able to again* do zmodem uploads, in telnet,
like I used to do all the time for dial-up.

ttyl neb

... Terror is your favorite program moving to a Windows only environment!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- ViaMAIL!/WC v1.60d
* Origin: Chowdanet (401-331-0615) telnet://chowdanet.com (1:323/120)