• Oz Attack On Christmas

    From Steve Asher@3:800/432 to All on Monday, December 05, 2005 02:51:11
    Anger over attack on Christmas
    From: The Sunday Mail (Qld)
    By Ainsley Pavey

    December 04, 2005

    RELIGIOUS groups have launched an attack on Christmas - calling
    for it to be renamed and toned down.

    A leading Islamic body says the use of the term "Christmas" is
    politically incorrect because it excludes too many people in
    multicultural Australia.

    The Forum on Australia's Islamic Relations wants a community debate
    to find an alternative - suggesting the word "festive" as a possible replacement.

    And a Queensland Jewish leader has called for an end to the "automatic imposition" of Christmas on the community, saying the season has been
    reduced to a "shopping festival".

    The attacks have outraged Christian churches, family groups and civic
    leaders. Even other Muslim groups have slammed the call.

    Islamic Council of Queensland president Abdul Jalal said Muslims have
    "no right" to question what Christians called their religious
    festival.

    Premier Peter Beattie said Christmas was an important celebration that
    should "stay put". He said: "Christians should be able to celebrate
    the festivities as Christmas."

    Brisbane Anglican Archbishop Phillip Aspinall said Christmas should
    continue to be celebrated as a "very important" date on the Christian
    calendar.

    Queensland Churches Together u representing 11 denominations including Catholic, Anglican and Uniting churches - described the name-change
    proposal as "absurd".

    And Family Council of Queensland president Alan Baker described the
    plans as "impertinent and intolerant".

    He said: "No one is suggesting that other religions change the name
    of their celebrations, such as Ramadan for Muslims or Hanukkah for
    Jews."

    Queensland local councils scoffed at suggestions they shun Christmas.

    Townsville Mayor Tony Mooney said: "Christmas is not politically
    incorrect and there is only a small group in the population that
    believe it is - and they're nuts."

    Caboolture Shire Council Mayor Joy Leishman said the call to rename
    Christmas was ridiculous.

    But the Islamic-relations forum director, Kuranda Seyit, told The
    Sunday Mail it was time for Australia to fall in line with places
    such as the UK, where councils have renamed Christmas "Winterval"
    and replaced references to Christmas on signage with the words
    "Festive" and "Winter".

    "Australia is now so diverse and there are so many cultures and
    festivities, we need to acknowledge the need to be inclusive of
    our identity."

    He expected his plan would insult some people, but urged a
    "step-by-step" approach.

    "A word like Festive is a good word but the community should make an
    effort to come up with an alternative to Christmas. Schools will take
    a leading role in terms of political correctness. The younger
    generation will grow up and say 'it's not fair'."

    Queensland's Jewish Board of Deputies president David Paratz said
    the extent of Christmas celebrations and partying had got out of hand
    - as had the commercialism surrounding the festival. Christmas was
    considered just a "shopping festival" by many people, he said.

    "It can't be assumed everyone is a Christian. People should not
    be faced with the automatic imposition of Christmas."

    -=<*>=-

    Source: news.com.au ("Sunday Mail" - Brisbane) http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17454097-421,00.html


    Cheers, Steve..

    ---
    * Origin: No to Dhimmitude - No to Noahides (3:800/432)
  • From George Pope@1:112/91 to Steve Asher on Sunday, December 04, 2005 16:55:33
    And a Queensland Jewish leader has called for an end to the "automatic imposition" of Christmas on the community, saying the season has been reduced to a "shopping festival".

    The attacks have outraged Christian churches, family groups and civic leaders. Even other Muslim groups have slammed the call.

    Why would the churches be bothered? There's absolutely NOTHING in the Bible to support this celebration, but much to condemn it (the adoption of pagan practices, especially)

    Because I care,
    |<+]::-) (Cyberpope(the Bishop of ROM!))


    ... nfx v3.1 What if there were no hypothetical questions?
    --- Fringe BBS
    * Origin: EWOG II - The Fringe - 904-733-1721 (1:112/91)
  • From Steve Asher@3:800/432 to George Pope on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 22:32:03
    Mulling over George Pope to Steve Asher 04 Dec 2005

    And a Queensland Jewish leader has called for an end to the "automatic imposition" of Christmas on the community, saying the season has been reduced to a "shopping festival".

    The attacks have outraged Christian churches, family groups and civic leaders. Even other Muslim groups have slammed the call.

    Why would the churches be bothered? There's absolutely NOTHING in
    the Bible to support this celebration, but much to condemn it (the adoption of pagan practices, especially)

    If Jews and Muslims are really so unhappy living in Australia with its Christmas traditions, they might consider moving to somewhere where they
    will be happier... e.g. Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

    Cheers, Steve..

    ---
    * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)
  • From George Pope@1:153/715.1275 to Steve Asher on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 17:41:57
    On (07 Dec 05) Steve Asher wrote to George Pope...
    Why would the churches be bothered? There's absolutely NOTHING
    in
    the Bible to support this celebration, but much to condemn it
    (the
    adoption of pagan practices, especially)

    If Jews and Muslims are really so unhappy living in Australia with its Christmas traditions, they might consider moving to somewhere where
    they
    will be happier... e.g. Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

    Way to sidestep my question!

    And, as I recall, Australia is not inherently a Christian nation -- the Christians came late and imposed themselves upon the natives. . .

    And it's not that simple to immigrate to just anywhere you please in
    this world!

    For example, I've looked into leaving Canada, and even to go to fellow Commonwealth nations is impossible for me! (let alone any nation without
    a history of inter-migration with Canada!)

    And why should THEY have to leave what is just as much THEIR home
    country?

    And, last I heard, Oz was not a nation specifically & officially forcing Christianity on its citizenry!

    Because I care,
    <+]::-{)} (Cyberpope(the Bishop of ROM!))


    --- PPoint 1.76
    * Origin: Cyberpope pointing via Bandmaster BBS! (1:153/715.1275)
  • From Steve Asher@3:800/432 to George Pope on Saturday, December 10, 2005 01:15:17
    Mulling over George Pope to Steve Asher 07 Dec 2005

    Why would the churches be bothered? There's absolutely NOTHING
    in
    the Bible to support this celebration, but much to condemn it
    (the
    adoption of pagan practices, especially)

    If Jews and Muslims are really so unhappy living in Australia with its Christmas traditions, they might consider moving to somewhere where
    they
    will be happier... e.g. Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

    Way to sidestep my question!

    Not really; I assumed you had asked a "Dorothy Dixer" and responded to it.

    And, as I recall, Australia is not inherently a Christian nation --
    the Christians came late and imposed themselves upon the natives. .

    No country is inherently Christian, but many countries do have Christian traditions, including Australia.

    And it's not that simple to immigrate to just anywhere you please
    in this world!

    For example, I've looked into leaving Canada, and even to go to
    fellow Commonwealth nations is impossible for me! (let alone any
    nation without a history of inter-migration with Canada!)

    And why should THEY have to leave what is just as much THEIR home
    country?

    I suggested it as a possibility, not something to be mandated. The
    Oz government has strongly asserted that Sharia Law will not be
    adopted here, & again has suggested that anyone who wants it badly
    should leave for somewhere that has it; there is talk of deporting dual-nationals who seek to undermine Australia's legal system.

    Cheers, Steve..

    ---
    * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)
  • From George Pope@1:153/715.1275 to Steve Asher on Friday, December 09, 2005 12:29:36
    On (10 Dec 05) Steve Asher wrote to George Pope...
    Why would the churches be bothered? There's absolutely
    NOTHING
    in
    the Bible to support this celebration, but much to condemn
    it
    (the
    adoption of pagan practices, especially)

    If Jews and Muslims are really so unhappy living in Australia
    with its
    Christmas traditions, they might consider moving to somewhere
    where
    they
    will be happier... e.g. Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq
    etc.

    Way to sidestep my question!

    Not really; I assumed you had asked a "Dorothy Dixer" and responded to
    it.

    I don't know what a "Dorothy Dixer" is so obviously I didn't ask one. .
    .
    and you STILL avoid my question!

    No country is inherently Christian, but many countries do have
    Christian
    traditions, including Australia.

    Even some inherently Moslem nations have some Christian traditions. . .
    Even the High Church of Satan has mostly Christian traditions!

    And why should THEY have to leave what is just as much THEIR home country?

    I suggested it as a possibility, not something to be mandated. The
    Oz government has strongly asserted that Sharia Law will not be
    adopted here, & again has suggested that anyone who wants it badly
    should leave for somewhere that has it; there is talk of deporting dual-nationals who seek to undermine Australia's legal system.

    Isn't Australia a democracy with free speech laws?

    So what's wrong with anybody who pays taxes in Oz speaking up for what
    they believe to be a better system?

    And if they successfully convince a majority of Australians, then, by Australian law it must become so, right?

    Because I care,
    <+]::-{)} (Cyberpope(the Bishop of ROM!))


    --- PPoint 1.76
    * Origin: Cyberpope pointing via Bandmaster BBS! (1:153/715.1275)
  • From George Pope@1:112/91 to Steve Asher on Sunday, December 11, 2005 13:17:38
    If Jews and Muslims are really so unhappy living in Australia with its Christmas traditions, they might consider moving to somewhere where they will be happier... e.g. Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

    The others, yeah, they'd have their Muslim celebrations, but only in Israel would they actually have freedom, as do other religions. . .

    ... nfx v3.1
    --- Fringe BBS
    * Origin: EWOG II - The Fringe - 904-733-1721 (1:112/91)