• Choudary calls for Sharia "Law" in UK

    From Steve Asher@3:800/432 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2009 00:41:30
    Britain responds to the threat of islam by continuing to do very
    little ...

    ====================================================================

    HATE PREACHER: I WANT SHARIA LAW IN BRITAIN
    Sunday March 29,2009
    By James Murray

    RADICAL Muslim Anjem Choudary has brushed aside a Scotland Yard probe into
    his inflammatory speeches to demand that Britain should become a Sharia state.

    His voice rising with passion and vigour, he told his growing army of
    followers in central London on Friday night: "Let me tell you something
    - the Sharia will be implemented in Pakistan, it will be implemented in
    India and Bangladesh and even down the road in Downing Street."

    He was sharing a platform with four other senior members of Islam4UK, a new organisation which is attracting the sort of believers who loyally followed hate preacher Abu Hamza before he was locked up.

    Muslims around the world will rise and eventually conquer the White House, said Choudary, comparing the struggle ahead with that faced by Muslims hundreds of years ago, who constantly brushed the dust of battles from
    their eyes as they conquered nations.

    Astonishingly, he compared himself to Noah from the Old Testament in one ranting outburst.

    "People said 'look at that man building that boat in the mountain'," he said. "Now they say 'look at that lunatic calling for the Sharia in Britain'
    ... they say the same thing."

    Like those doubters in centuries past, Muslims will be tested but they must hold true to their convictions.

    "The question is, will your footsteps be in the struggle?" he asked the audience of more than 100 young Muslim men who share a deep-seated and worrying loathing of everything that Britain stands for.

    The old Islamic army was 60 million strong and stretched from the "east of
    the east to the west of the west" and those days will come again, he said, although there are no countries in the world ruled by Sharia.

    [...]

    Full article at UK "Daily Express"
    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/91891/ Hate-preacher-I-want-Sharia-law-in-Britain

    ---
    * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Steve Asher on Friday, April 03, 2009 11:26:15
    [...]

    Astonishingly, he compared himself to Noah from the Old Testament in one ranting outburst.

    "People said 'look at that man building that boat in the mountain'," he said. [...]

    Noah built a boat in the mountain? Interesting.


    Regards,

    Roger

    ... Don't worry, I'm fluent in weirdo
    --- D'Bridge 3.24
    * Origin: NCS BBS (1:3828/7)
  • From Jeff Snyder@1:345/3777 to Steve Asher on Saturday, April 04, 2009 04:00:00
    As crazy or as unbelievable as the previous UK article may sound, there is one disturbing element which seems to clearly define the religious nature of the endtime One World Government of the Beast. The word "beast" is used in the Bible to refer to a specific political leader, or the government of a specific nation, or a world power. At any rate, that one disturbing element is the fact that those who refuse to go along with the One World Government will be beheaded. There is only ONE modern major religion where beheading by a sword remains an acceptable form of capital punishment, and it certainly isn't Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism or Hinduism.

    Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


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  • From Jeff Snyder@1:345/3777 to Roger Nelson on Saturday, April 04, 2009 06:53:00
    On 04/04/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Roger Nelson: Re: Choudary calls for
    Sharia "Law" in UK.

    Noah built a boat in the mountain? Interesting. Regards, Roger


    To my knowledge, the Bible does not specifically say where Noah built the Ark. What we do know is that once the flood waters receded, the Ark rested upon the "mountains of Ararat", which is a mountainous region of eastern Armenia, between the river Araxes, and the lakes Van and Oroomiah. Some Bible scholars and archeologists claim to have discovered the remains of the Ark, as well anchor stones, an altar that Noah built afterwards, and even the remains of
    the stone house that Noah built afterwards, as well as the vineyard that he planted, and areas where animals were kept afterwards. Exactly how accurate or true any of this really is, I honestly do not know. Over the decades, there have been several claims of having found the Ark in different areas of the Arafat region.

    Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


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  • From Steve Asher@3:800/432 to Jeff Snyder on Sunday, April 05, 2009 02:16:15
    world power. At any rate, that one disturbing element is the fact
    that those who refuse to go along with the One World Government
    will be beheaded. There is only ONE modern major religion where
    beheading by a sword remains an acceptable form of capital
    punishment, and it certainly isn't Christianity or Judaism or
    Buddhism or Hinduism.

    I agree on the first point about those who refuse to go along ...
    will be beheaded, but disagree on the second point about there
    being only one modern religion sanctioning beheading.

    Another religion mandating execution, generally by beheading,
    is Judaism, which claims a mandate to impose and enforce the
    "Noahide Laws" ... the "Seven Laws of Noah", "Universal Laws"
    etc.

    This is not to say that all Jews support the imposition of
    noahide laws on gentiles ("Children of Noah"); it is largely
    the "Lubavitchers" (Chabad Lubavitch) / followers of the late
    Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson who push for this, but they
    are not without influence, in Washington and elsewhere.

    These are the Seven Laws on Chabad Org: www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/62221/jewish/Universal-Morality.htm

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    THE 7 LAWS

    1
    Acknowledge that there is only one G-d who is Infinite and Supreme above all things. Do not replace that Supreme Being with finite idols, be it yourself, or other beings. This command includes such acts as prayer, study and meditation.

    2
    Respect the Creator. As frustrated and angry as you may be, do not vent it
    by cursing your Maker.

    3
    Respect human life. Every human being is an entire world. To save a life is
    to save that entire world. To destroy a life is to destroy an entire world.
    To help others live is a corollary of this principle.

    4
    Respect the institution of marriage. Marriage is a most Divine act. The marriage of a man and a woman is a reflection of the oneness of G-d and
    His creation. Disloyalty in marriage is an assault on that oneness.

    5
    Respect the rights and property of others. Be honest in all your business dealings. By relying on G-d rather than on our own conniving, we express
    our trust in Him as the Provider of Life.

    6
    Respect G-d's creatures. At first, Man was forbidden to consume meat.
    After the Great Flood, he was permitted - but with a warning: Do not
    cause unnecessary suffering to any creature.

    7
    Maintain justice. Justice is G-d's business, but we are given the charge
    to lay down necessary laws and enforce them whenever we can. When we right
    the wrongs of society, we are acting as partners in the act of sustaining
    the creation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    The 7th "Law" is the one that mandates the death penalty for breaches
    of the others, and all these "laws" will be overseen by the Sanhedrin, operating from the Third Temple.

    From the Temple Mount Center - Mercaz Har HaBayith
    ( http://www.hamikdash.com/Introenglish.html )

    The Responsibilities of the Gentiles:
    ( http://www.hamikdash.com/Rambam.html )

    Extracts ...

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What does G-d require from the Gentiles? How can they achieve a moral life
    in this world, and the rewards of the world to come?

    First we will present a synopsis of the commandments which are applicable
    to all of the Gentile nations, and then we will present a detailed explication.

    Seven Commandments for the Gentiles, called the Sheva Mitzvos B'nei Noach:

    The Path for Gentiles to Enter into the World to Come and to Avoid the Flood of Immorality in this World.

    1. No worship or prayer to anyone except G-d. No images of G-d. No prayers
    to intermediaries. G-d is one, not none, not two, not three, not many.

    2. No murder. Execution of criminals is however not murder, and is required. See 7.

    3. No sexual iniquity which means no adultery, no incest, no homosexuality
    and no bestiality.

    4. No stealing, even of an inconsequential amount.

    5. No eating flesh removed from a living animal.

    6. No cursing of G-d. No blasphemy.

    7. Must set up law courts to judge on the other six. All seven are capital crimes. If the country does not set up courts to judge on the other six and
    to punish transgressors with death, then all of the inhabitants who could
    do anything about it are punishable

    [... ...]

    16. In what way are the Gentiles to set up law courts? They must establish judges in every single town to judge on the other six commandments, and to
    warn people against violating them. A Gentile who violates one of these seven commandments is killed by the sword.

    [... ...]

    20. The punishment for violating any of the seven commandments of the
    children of Noah is execution, generally by the sword.

    [... ...]

    All of the above is based strictly on the Rambam (Maimonides), one of the greatest codifiers of Jewish law.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Take careful note of "Law 1", which forbids prayers to intermediaries, and
    thus forbids prayers in Jesus' name, as the sole mediator between God and
    man, and has the effect of outlawing Christianity, with death by the sword
    for those who transgress.

    There is, of course, much more on the "Noahide Laws" and their implications
    for Christians.

    Cheers, Steve..

    ---
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  • From Jeff Snyder@1:345/3777 to Steve Asher on Sunday, April 05, 2009 21:00:00
    Hello Steve. Thanks for sharing the information regarding the "Noahide Laws" and "The Responsibilities of the Gentiles". While I obviously don't agree with it all, I did find it interesting.

    I am curious. Are you of Jewish descent? Your last name is obviously Jewish, Asher, of course, being Jacob's second son by Zilpah, the maid of his first wife, Leah.

    I was surprised to learn that certain sects of Judaism support beheading. However, I don't think that what you are saying is exactly the same as what I was saying in my previous post.

    In other words, when I stated that there is only one religion that I am aware of where beheading with a sword is an acceptable form of capital punishment, what I really meant to express is that there is only one religion that I know of where beheading with a sword is currently an ACTIVE and ENFORCED form of punishment. This certainly cannot be said of Judaism. There are no public executions by a sword in Israel that I am aware of, but in some Muslim countries, there most certainly are.

    It is also important to note that while beheading may be supported by certain Jewish sects, Israel is in fact governed, and has been governed, by a very secular government. I am aware of the fact that the extremist Shas Party has joined Bibi's, (Benjamin Netanyahu's), coalition, but nevertheless, it is
    still very much a secular government...and yes, I am worried that Netanyahu
    and Shas are in power again. I was concerned when Netanyahu won the first time as well. As long as he is in power, there will be no peace agreement, or Palestinian state, and both sides will continue to become more radicalized.

    But getting back to the laws that you quoted, it certainly seems that some
    Jews are just as much hypocrites when it comes to abiding by their religious laws, as some Christians are hypocrites about keeping theirs. Considering that over 3,000 Palestinians have died since the last Intifada began in 2000, and that hundreds more, including many innocent civilians, died during the recent Gaza War, in which excessive force was used, as on other occasions, their "respect of human life", (law #3), certainly seems bogus.

    I also get a chuckle out of their degree of adherence to law #5 regarding
    being "honest in all your business dealings". It's a noble law, but realistically speaking...come on. :)

    I also noticed your reference to the Gentiles being the "Children of Noah". I don't understand this distinction, being as the Jews are the descendants of Noah as well, through his son, Shem, which ultimately resulted in the birth of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We pale-skinned Westerners are all Shemites.

    As you already know, as a Christian, I cannot possibly accept their rejection of Jesus Christ, or their claim to have the right to impose certain laws upon Gentiles, which they claim will help Gentiles to "achieve a moral life in this world, and the rewards of the world to come". As a result of their rejection
    of Christ, they have formulated a religion of self-righteous works. They are depending upon their own works and observance of the Law, instead of the Grace and Mercy which we receive from God, through Christ, who, according to the Christian faith, is the final sacrificial Lamb of the New Testament.

    I noticed that you also mentioned the Sanhedrin and the Third Temple. The latter is something I have written about and spoken about for years. Do you care to share your views on it? I am fully aware of the Temple Mount Faithful and similar groups, as well as current attempts to restore the temple, including the preparation of the priestly garments, the temple implements,
    etc. Do you think this will actually happen any time soon, if ever; and will
    it require a war to remove the Mosque of Omar and the Dome of the Rock, or do you think there will be a compromise in which both will sit upon the mount simultaneously? Just curious as to your thoughts.

    Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


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  • From Joe Bruchis@1:3828/12 to Roger Nelson on Sunday, April 05, 2009 08:15:46
    Roger Nelson wrote in a message to Steve Asher:

    [...]

    Astonishingly, he compared himself to Noah from the Old Testament in one ranting outburst.

    "People said 'look at that man building that boat in the mountain'," he said. [...]

    Noah built a boat in the mountain? Interesting.

    During the flood, the Ark was thought to have reached the height of the suurounding mountain peaks. There are some very imaginative pictures, showing what is said to be part of the Ark, lying near a mountain top in the Biblical region.


    Regards,

    Joe
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  • From Steve Asher@3:800/432 to Jeff Snyder on Monday, April 06, 2009 00:46:55
    Hi Jeff...

    It will be easier (for me) to reply in chunks, instead of attempting
    to post one long reply.

    Hello Steve. Thanks for sharing the information regarding the
    "Noahide Laws" and "The Responsibilities of the Gentiles". While I obviously don't agree with it all, I did find it interesting.

    I am curious. Are you of Jewish descent? Your last name is
    obviously Jewish, Asher, of course, being Jacob's second son by
    Zilpah, the maid of his first wife, Leah.

    To my knowledge, I am not of Jewish descent, despite my last name -
    Scottish, and English, though there may be a link I am not aware of.

    Cheers, Steve..

    ---
    * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)
  • From Steve Asher@3:800/432 to Jeff Snyder on Monday, April 06, 2009 01:06:59
    I was surprised to learn that certain sects of Judaism support
    beheading. However, I don't think that what you are saying is
    exactly the same as what I was saying in my previous post.

    In other words, when I stated that there is only one religion that
    I am aware of where beheading with a sword is an acceptable form of capital punishment, what I really meant to express is that there is
    only one religion that I know of where beheading with a sword is
    currently an ACTIVE and ENFORCED form of punishment. This certainly
    cannot be said of Judaism. There are no public executions by a
    sword in Israel that I am aware of, but in some Muslim countries,
    there most certainly are.

    I accept your distinction, but in return point out the "obligation"
    on Jews to seek observance of "Halacha" laws, and the obligation to
    impose Noahide Laws upon Gentiles. Israel is currently a secular
    state, unlike islamic "theocracies" such as Iran / Saudi Arabia.

    The clear "halachic" requirement is that Israel change from a secular
    state to a theocracy, under the (currently nascent) Sanhedrin, and to
    rule the Gentile nations by imposing & enforcing Noahide Laws.

    E.G. (noachide = noahide):


    The Obligation of Jews to Seek Observance of Noachide[1] Laws by Gentiles:
    A Theoretical Review
    by Rabbi Michael J. Broyde[*]

    [... ...]

    ABSTRACT
    This paper addresses the scope of Jewish law's mandate upon Jews to enforce the Seven Noachide commandments, as well as any other rules Jewish law
    mandates that Gentiles should keep. Part One of this article outlines what
    are the Noachide commandments, and their place in a halachic system.

    Part Two discusses the obligation of both Jews and Noachides under the rubric of the commandment called dinim (literally: "laws" or "justice").

    Part Three reviews the various opinions on the obligation of Jews to
    enforce the Noachide commandments. Part Three will consider not only
    whether enforcement must be sought, but in situations where enforcement
    is not possible, whether Jewish law mandates Jews to seek to persuade Noachides to obey their commandments. It will also consider whether --
    when such persuasion fails -- Jewish law, at the minimum, requires that
    one may not assist a Gentile in violating the Noachide commandments.

    This article concludes that notwithstanding a minority opinion to the contrary, Jewish law accepts that Gentiles are obligated to keep the Noachide laws, and they are obligated even for unintentional violations. So too, Jewish law recognizes that Gentiles are obligated to create a system of laws designed to -- at the minimum -- enforce the Noachide laws. Finally, while Maimonides appears to accept that Jews as well as Noachides are obligated to enforce the Noachide laws, many authorities, early and late, reject this rule of Maimonides
    and deny that there is a halachic obligation on individual Jews
    to compel Noachides to observe their laws. Finally this article noted that whether there is (or is not) a halachic obligation to affirmatively enforce the
    Noachide laws, it is nonetheless still biblically prohibited to enable or entice a Noachide to violate the Noachide laws (if absent a Jew's assistance, the law would not be violated). However, in a situation where the Noachide is able to violate the law without the assistance of any Jew, many authorities rule that there is no obligation to prevent a Noachide from sinning and thus one may even assist the Noachide in sin.

    [... ...]

    Source: http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/noach2.html#oblig-compel


    Cheers, Steve..

    ---
    * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)
  • From Lee Lofaso@3:800/432 to Jeff Snyder on Sunday, April 05, 2009 14:10:00
    Hello Jeff,

    As crazy or as unbelievable as the previous UK article may sound, there is o JS>disturbing element which seems to clearly define the religious nature of the JS>endtime One World Government of the Beast. The word "beast" is used in the JS>Bible to refer to a specific political leader, or the government of a specif JS>nation, or a world power. At any rate, that one disturbing element is the fa JS>that those who refuse to go along with the One World Government will be JS>beheaded. There is only ONE modern major religion where beheading by a sword JS>remains an acceptable form of capital punishment, and it certainly isn't JS>Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism or Hinduism.

    The sword, axe, and guillotine were all widely used by Christians.
    Even the Jews beheaded folks, usually with a sword, in times past.
    In fact, crucifixion was also a Jewish custom, not used solely by the
    Romans. However, crucifixion rarely resulted in the loss of one's head.
    In any event, the death penalty today is in disfavor among all civilized nations, except the USA. It is only a matter of time before the USA
    joins the fold, along with all other nations. Which, in my opinion,
    would be a good thing.

    --Lee


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  • From Lee Lofaso@3:800/432 to Jeff Snyder on Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:10:02
    Hello Jeff,

    Noah built a boat in the mountain? Interesting. Regards, Roger

    To my knowledge, the Bible does not specifically say where Noah built the Ar JS>What we do know is that once the flood waters receded, the Ark rested upon t JS>"mountains of Ararat", which is a mountainous region of eastern Armenia, JS>between the river Araxes, and the lakes Van and Oroomiah. Some Bible scholar JS>and archeologists claim to have discovered the remains of the Ark, as well JS>anchor stones, an altar that Noah built afterwards, and even the remains of JS>the stone house that Noah built afterwards, as well as the vineyard that he JS>planted, and areas where animals were kept afterwards. Exactly how accurate JS>true any of this really is, I honestly do not know. Over the decades, there JS>have been several claims of having found the Ark in different areas of the JS>Arafat region.

    The Bible and the Qur`an both agree on the "mountains of Arafat" as
    being the resting place of Noah's Ark. Whether the ark still exists,
    or remains where it originally came to rest, is an open question.
    The best claim of Noah's Ark that I have come across seems to be
    an area in Iran, where remnants of what could be the Ark have been
    found. But, as you noted, there have been several claims over the
    years, in various places.

    --Lee


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  • From Jeff Snyder@1:345/3777 to Steve Asher on Monday, April 06, 2009 06:57:00
    On 04/06/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Steve Asher: Choudary calls for Sharia
    "Law" in UK.

    To my knowledge, I am not of Jewish descent, despite my last name - Scottish, and English, though there may be a link I am not aware of.


    Interesting. I am English/Irish on my mother's side, although you would never know it going by my last name.

    Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


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  • From Jeff Snyder@1:345/3777 to Steve Asher on Monday, April 06, 2009 07:16:00
    On 04/06/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Steve Asher: Choudary calls for Sharia
    "Law" in UK.

    I accept your distinction, but in return point out the "obligation" on Jews to seek observance of "Halacha" laws, and the obligation to impose Noahide Laws upon Gentiles. Israel is currently a secular state, unlike islamic "theocracies" such as Iran / Saudi Arabia.

    The clear "halachic" requirement is that Israel change from a secular state to a theocracy, under the (currently nascent) Sanhedrin, and to rule the Gentile nations by imposing & enforcing Noahide Laws.


    Interesting...although unless these particular Jews in some way take over the world in a religious sense, as they have already done in a financial sense,
    and to some degree, even in a political sense, it will never be possible for them to enforce these laws upon the Gentile nations at any level. Of course,
    if there were to be a One World Government, whose leader was of Jewish origin...

    I couldn't help but notice the phrase "under the (currently nascent) Sanhedrin". This again seems to emphasize how serious this particular sect of Jews is to rebuilding the temple, and re-establishing their old form of religious worship...and sacrifiice?

    I am not totally unfamiliar with these things, being as some of them are a central part of Christian eschatological beliefs, but I am curious as to how you personally became interested in them. You obviously have a deeper
    knowledge of them than the average person, and probably even more than the average Christian. While you stated that you are not of Jewish descent, do you nevertheless observe some form of the Jewish religion? Again, just curious.

    Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


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  • From Jeff Snyder@1:345/3777 to Lee Lofaso on Monday, April 06, 2009 07:44:00
    On 04/06/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Lee Lofaso: Re: Choudary calls for S.

    The sword, axe, and guillotine were all widely used by Christians. Even the Jews beheaded folks, usually with a sword, in times past. In fact, crucifixion was also a Jewish custom, not used solely by the Romans. However, crucifixion rarely resulted in the loss of one's head. In any event, the death penalty today is in disfavor among all civilized nations, except the USA. It is only a matter of time before the USA joins the fold, along with all other nations. Which, in my opinion, would be a good thing.


    Hello again Lee. Thanks for your comments. I imagine that you are already following the conversation between Steve Asher and myself. As I already mentioned to Steve, while I am aware of this form of capital punishment being used in the past, I was actually referring to nations today where beheading is still actively enforced, that of course being the Muslim nations. However, Steve is revealing some things of which I personally was not aware.

    I have also been following the status of the death penalty, and am aware of
    the fact that the USA is one of the few Western nations where it is still an acceptable form of punishment. Some time ago I wrote an article called "Bloody But Unbowed: Timothy McVeigh And The Death Penalty". If you'd care to read it, please go here:

    www.endtimeprophecy.net/EPN-1/Articles/Articles-Cont/bloodyun.html

    For the record, I likewise find the death penalty gross, and have often said, and written, that it is easy for people to accept it when they are not the one pulling the lever, or administering the drugs. Being the executioner gives one a whole new perspective.

    Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


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  • From Jeff Snyder@1:345/3777 to Lee Lofaso on Monday, April 06, 2009 07:54:00
    On 04/06/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Lee Lofaso: Re: Choudary calls for S.

    The Bible and the Qur`an both agree on the "mountains of Arafat" as being the resting place of Noah's Ark. Whether the ark still exists, or remains where it originally came to rest, is an open question. The best claim of Noah's Ark that I have come across seems to be an area in Iran, where remnants of what could be the Ark have been found. But, as you noted, there have been several claims over the years, in various places.


    Hi Lee. Thanks for responding. Given that extreme northwestern Iran is
    bordered by Armenia where the mountainous region of Ararat is located, I suppose that the remains of the Ark could possibly be there as well. I do know that Anchor Stones International is capitalizing on one location, in conjunction with the Turkish government. Personally, I find it disgusting that they would do this. In case you were not aware of it, I am strongly opposed to the financial exploitation of the Christian faith. It goes against everything that the Bible teaches us regarding "filthy lucre".

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  • From Joe Bruchis@1:3828/12 to Lee Lofaso on Sunday, April 05, 2009 15:51:09
    Lee Lofaso wrote in a message to Jeff Snyder:

    In fact, crucifixion was also a Jewish custom, not used solely by
    the Romans.

    Lee, I definitely would like to see your citation on that one.


    Regards,

    Joe
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: -=[Fire on the Bayou]=- Nawlins (1:3828/12)
  • From Joe Bruchis@1:3828/12 to Jeff Snyder on Sunday, April 05, 2009 17:01:40
    Jeff Snyder wrote in a message to Steve Asher:

    On 04/06/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Steve Asher: Choudary calls for
    Sharia "Law" in UK.

    I accept your distinction, but in return point out the
    "obligation" on Jews
    to seek observance of "Halacha" laws, and the obligation to impose
    Noahide
    Laws upon Gentiles. Israel is currently a secular state, unlike islamic "theocracies" such as Iran / Saudi Arabia.

    Jews have no such obligation. To say that means you know nothing about Judaism.

    Interesting...although unless these particular Jews in some way
    take over the world in a religious sense, as they have already done
    in a financial sense, and to some degree, even in a political
    sense, it will never be possible for them to enforce these laws
    upon the Gentile nations at any level. Of course, if there were to
    be a One World Government, whose leader was of Jewish origin...

    What exactly are you implying here, Jeff? Are you saying the Jews have taken over the World, financially? Show us the facts on that. How many Jews are there
    in the world, Jeff?


    Regards,

    Joe
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: -=[Fire on the Bayou]=- Nawlins (1:3828/12)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Jeff Snyder on Monday, April 06, 2009 09:32:43
    Noah built a boat in the mountain? Interesting.


    To my knowledge, the Bible does not specifically say where Noah built the Ark.

    The best guess anyone has is that Noah lived on the plains between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. That the ark ended up on the mountain is in the Bible, but Genesis doesn't state exactly where Noah lived. I'm inclined to believe
    it is according to the best guess stated above.

    true any of this really is, I honestly do not know. Over the decades,
    there have been several claims of having found the Ark in different
    areas of the Arafat region.

    Where would that be?

    Roger

    ... Mere life is not victory, mere death is not defeat.
    --- D'Bridge 3.24
    * Origin: NCS BBS (1:3828/7)
  • From Steve Asher@3:800/432 to Joe Bruchis on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 01:39:42
    Mulling over Joe Bruchis to Jeff Snyder 05 Apr 2009

    On 04/06/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Steve Asher: Choudary calls for
    Sharia "Law" in UK.

    I accept your distinction, but in return point out the "obligation"
    on Jews to seek observance of "Halacha" laws, and the obligation to
    impose Noahide Laws upon Gentiles. Israel is currently a secular
    state, unlike islamic "theocracies" such as Iran / Saudi Arabia.

    Jews have no such obligation. To say that means you know nothing
    about Judaism.

    If you have any evidence in support of your assertion, feel free to
    provide it. My knowledge of Judaism is limited to what information
    Jews themselves provide, the ease which I can find the information,
    my ability to read and understand the information, and the fact
    that there are other views that may oppose or modify the information
    that I post. My Fidonet messages are not meant to cover every shade
    of belief or opinion on any subject, and are always open to challenge, expansion, or discussion. Some Jewish sources that can be readily
    found say that Jews have such obligation - you say they do not.

    Since I reject the "noahide laws" as a rejection of God's plan of
    salvation and eternal life through Jesus Christ, I am not overly
    concerned by arguments about obligations or otherwise on Jews
    to enforce these "laws".

    (extracts)
    http://www.ahavat-israel.com/am/goyim.php

    Noachide Laws

    "Ultimately, all is understood: fear G-d and observe His commandments,
    for this is the completion of man."

    [... ...]

    The Jew's Role
    The Jew has a crucial role to play in this. He cannot be a bystander,
    remaining aloof from the world's conduct. Every Jew has the obligation
    to ensure that all the people of the world observe the Seven Noachide Laws.

    It is through the observance of the Seven Noachide Laws that the entire
    world becomes a decent, productive place, a fitting receptacle for the Divine.

    The Rambam explicitly rules (Code, Kings 8:10):
    "Moshe Rabbeinu commanded from the mouth of G-d to convince all the
    inhabitants of the world to observe the commandments given to the
    Children of Noach."

    It is the Jew's duty to see to it that all peoples lead the righteous
    and decent life which comes from compliance with the Seven Noachide Laws.
    Not only is it a Jew's duty because he has been so commanded by G-d, but
    it is also to his own benefit.

    ---
    * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)
  • From Steve Asher@3:800/432 to Jeff Snyder on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 02:39:39
    The clear "halachic" requirement is that Israel change from a
    secular state to a theocracy, under the (currently nascent)
    Sanhedrin, and to rule the Gentile nations by imposing & enforcing
    Noahide Laws.

    Interesting...although unless these particular Jews in some way
    take over the world in a religious sense, as they have already done
    in a financial sense, and to some degree, even in a political
    sense, it will never be possible for them to enforce these laws
    upon the Gentile nations at any level. Of course, if there were to
    be a One World Government, whose leader was of Jewish origin...

    ... or who was regarded by Jews as being "Moshiach", regardless
    of his origin, but most likely or almost certainly Jewish (IMO).

    I couldn't help but notice the phrase "under the (currently
    nascent) Sanhedrin". This again seems to emphasize how serious this particular sect of Jews is to rebuilding the temple, and
    re-establishing their old form of religious worship...and
    sacrifiice?

    They are quite serious - there is some discussion about who will build
    the Temple (Moshiach?), or whether it is already built, in Heaven, and
    ready to descend at the time of "G-d's" choosing. Since the previous
    temples were built by man, it is reasonable to expect that the next
    one will be built by men, and prophetically to be occupied by the
    Antichrist (false Messiah).

    I am not totally unfamiliar with these things, being as some of
    them are a central part of Christian eschatological beliefs, but I
    am curious as to how you personally became interested in them. You obviously have a deeper knowledge of them than the average person,
    and probably even more than the average Christian. While you stated
    that you are not of Jewish descent, do you nevertheless observe
    some form of the Jewish religion? Again, just curious.

    My interest goes back about 30 years, when as a non-Christian, I became interested in the identity of Antichrist, and who he might be. The most
    likely candidate is the one the Jews are expecting as "Moshiach", since
    they (generally) rejected the true Messiah, Jesus Christ, who came in
    his father's name, and still await a future "messiah", who may appear
    at any time.

    I don't observe some form of the Jewish religion, but I do accept Judaism
    as the Old Testament basis of Christianity.

    Cheers, Steve..

    ---
    * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)
  • From Joe Bruchis@1:123/789 to Steve Asher on Monday, April 06, 2009 20:52:44
    Steve Asher -> Joe Bruchis wrote:
    Mulling over Joe Bruchis to Jeff Snyder 05 Apr 2009

    On 04/06/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Steve Asher: Choudary calls for
    Sharia "Law" in UK.

    I accept your distinction, but in return point out the "obligation"
    on Jews to seek observance of "Halacha" laws, and the obligation to
    impose Noahide Laws upon Gentiles. Israel is currently a secular
    state, unlike islamic "theocracies" such as Iran / Saudi Arabia.

    Jews have no such obligation. To say that means you know nothing
    about Judaism.

    If you have any evidence in support of your assertion, feel free to provide it. My knowledge of Judaism is limited to what information
    Jews themselves provide, the ease which I can find the information,
    my ability to read and understand the information, and the fact
    that there are other views that may oppose or modify the information
    that I post. My Fidonet messages are not meant to cover every shade
    of belief or opinion on any subject, and are always open to challenge, expansion, or discussion. Some Jewish sources that can be readily
    found say that Jews have such obligation - you say they do not.

    What I replied to was actually not written by you. However, you are discussing philosophies of Rabbis of which there have been millions upon millions and philosophies of Philosophers and Theologians of which there have been many millions more.

    The only thing that makes a Jew a Jew is that one is born of a Jewish Mother. That's it in totality. Everything else is philosophy, and is also geographical and/or secular in nature.

    It does no good to try to nail it down, because it can't be nailed-down.

    There is no one description of Judaism or Jewishness other than the one I stated.

    The Rambam explicitly rules (Code, Kings 8:10):
    "Moshe Rabbeinu commanded from the mouth of G-d to convince all the inhabitants of the world to observe the commandments given to the
    Children of Noach."

    Moses Maimonides, also known as Rabbi Moses ben Maimon or Rambam, was just another Rabbi. He was a great philosopher and theologian, but he was not G-d, as it seems he is being made out to be.


    It is the Jew's duty to see to it that all peoples lead the righteous
    and decent life which comes from compliance with the Seven Noachide Laws. Not only is it a Jew's duty because he has been so commanded by G-d, but it is also to his own benefit.

    Not a bad teaching, I must say. But only a teaching, nonetheless.

    Regards,

    Joe

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302)
    * Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)
  • From Lee Lofaso@3:800/432 to Joe Bruchis on Monday, April 06, 2009 16:44:00
    Hello Joe,

    In fact, crucifixion was also a Jewish custom, not used solely by
    the Romans.

    Lee, I definitely would like to see your citation on that one.

    Why certainly, Joe -

    http://joezias.com/CrucifixionAntiquity.html

    "In Ancient Israel crucifixion amongst the Jews was rare and except for
    a few instances, as when treason was involved, the subject was stoned to
    death first and then hung on a tree in accordance with the Biblical
    passage in Deuteronomy 21:22-23."

    Dt 21:22-23 - "When someone is convicted of a crime punishable by death
    and executed, and you hang him on a tree, his corpse must not remain all
    night upon the tree; you shall bury him that same day, for anyone hung
    on a tree is under God's curse."

    Of course, that does not tell the whole story.

    "There was one exception to this passage in which the Jewish victims
    were killed first via crucifi ion rather than being hung on a tree after
    death as was the case with the high priest, Alexander Janneus in which
    800 Jews were crucified in Jerusalem in 87 BCE before their wives and
    children. While on the cross, according to Josephus (Ant. 12:256) the
    women and children were then slaughtered before their eyes."

    Jews did not crucify only men, or in the same way -

    "Perhaps one of the unique aspects of Jewish crucifixion was that when
    employed on women, according to Mishna, they faced the cross whereas men
    were crucified with their back to the cross. (M. Sanh. 6.4)"

    --Lee


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Give yourself over to absolute pleasure."-Frank'N'Furter

    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)
  • From Lee Lofaso@3:800/432 to Joe Bruchis on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 16:52:10
    Hello Joe,

    The only thing that makes a Jew a Jew is that one is born
    of a Jewish Mother. That's it in totality. Everything else
    is philosophy, and is also geographical and/or secular in
    nature.

    "What is a Jew?" - Sigmund Freud

    To the best of my knowledge, that question has never been sufficiently
    answered by anybody. One man's definition of a Jew might be totally
    different than another man's definition. As such, how can anyone define
    what cannot be defined?

    It does no good to try to nail it down, because it can't be nailed-down.

    Kind of like trying to nail jello to a wall.

    There is no one description of Judaism or Jewishness other
    than the one I stated.

    Even your description is open to question.

    The Rambam explicitly rules (Code, Kings 8:10):
    "Moshe Rabbeinu commanded from the mouth of G-d to convince all the >SA>inhabitants of the world to observe the commandments given to the >SA>Children of Noach."

    Moses Maimonides, also known as Rabbi Moses ben Maimon or
    Rambam, was just another Rabbi. He was a great philosopher
    and theologian, but he was not G-d, as it seems he is being
    made out to be.

    Philosophy is an intellectual discipline.
    Theology is also an intellectual discipline.
    Both philosophy and theology serve to answer
    certain questions. But no philosopher or
    theologian is God.

    Was Jesus "just another Rabbi", as some have claimed? During his public ministry, He was asked, many times, what His source was for what He
    stated. Who, or what, was His authority? A rabbi is expected to have
    learned from another rabbi. Original thought being unthinkable. What
    rabbi, or school of religious study, did Jesus cite? Or is it true that
    Jesus claim was that He truly was the Son of God?

    It is the Jew's duty to see to it that all peoples lead the righteous >SA>and decent life which comes from compliance with the Seven Noachide Law >SA>Not only is it a Jew's duty because he has been so commanded by G-d, bu >SA>it is also to his own benefit.

    Not a bad teaching, I must say. But only a teaching, nonetheless.

    Was Jesus just a teacher (rabbi), as some have claimed?
    Was Jesus just a philosopher, as George W. Bush claimed?

    "What is a Jew?" could be restated "Who is that Jew?"
    Certainly Jesus was no mere teacher (rabbi) or philosopher.

    --Lee


    * SLMR 2.1a * Allons Bingo.

    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)
  • From Joe Bruchis@1:123/789 to Lee Lofaso on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 22:13:21
    Lee Lofaso -> Joe Bruchis wrote:
    Hello Joe,

    The only thing that makes a Jew a Jew is that one is born
    of a Jewish Mother. That's it in totality. Everything else
    is philosophy, and is also geographical and/or secular in
    nature.

    "What is a Jew?" - Sigmund Freud

    To the best of my knowledge, that question has never been sufficiently answered by anybody. One man's definition of a Jew might be totally different than another man's definition. As such, how can anyone define what cannot be defined?

    A Freudian slip, I guess:

    Who is a Jew?

    A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.

    It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish
    religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox.

    http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm



    It does no good to try to nail it down, because it can't be nailed-down.

    Kind of like trying to nail jello to a wall.

    Yeah.

    There is no one description of Judaism or Jewishness other
    than the one I stated.

    Even your description is open to question.


    No, it's not.

    Philosophy is an intellectual discipline.
    Theology is also an intellectual discipline.
    Both philosophy and theology serve to answer
    certain questions. But no philosopher or
    theologian is God.


    Why did you feel you needed to tell me that?

    Was Jesus "just another Rabbi", as some have claimed? During his public ministry, He was asked, many times, what His source was for what He stated. Who, or what, was His authority? A rabbi is expected to have learned from another rabbi. Original thought being unthinkable. What rabbi, or school of religious study, did Jesus cite? Or is it true that Jesus claim was that He truly was the Son of God?


    How would I know the answer to that?


    Was Jesus just a teacher (rabbi), as some have claimed?
    Was Jesus just a philosopher, as George W. Bush claimed?


    He was both.

    "What is a Jew?" could be restated "Who is that Jew?"
    Certainly Jesus was no mere teacher (rabbi) or philosopher.


    Certainly? Other than the "Bible" there are large gaps in documentation regarding his life. I guess you'll never really know, and certainly, you will never be certain.


    Regards,

    Joe

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302)
    * Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)
  • From Wordweaver@1:345/3777 to Lee Lofaso on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 16:33:00
    On 04/08/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Lee Lofaso: Re: Choudary calls for S.

    The sword, axe, and guillotine were all widely used by Christians. Even the Jews beheaded folks, usually with a sword, in times past. In fact, crucifixion was also a Jewish custom, not used solely by the Romans.


    Hello again Lee. I'd really appreciate some clarification on that last
    comment. In all the years that I have been studying the Bible -- four decades -- I have never heard or read of Jews crucifying other Jews. Stoning to death, yes, but never crucifixion.

    In fact, in the Bible, when Pilate asked the Jewish leaders why they couldn't just put Jesus to death themselves, guess how they responded? Check this out:

    "Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:" (John 18:31, KJV)

    It was, of course, a rather hypocritcal response, being as they apparently had no qualms with stoning prostitutes, etc. I think the real issue here is that they wanted Pilate to do their dirty work for them.

    Anyway, my point stands. I've never heard or read of Jews using crucifixion.

    Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


    --- Hermes Web Tosser 1.1
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  • From Wordweaver@1:345/3777 to Roger Nelson on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 16:49:00
    On 04/08/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Roger Nelson: Re: Choudary calls for
    Sharia "Law" in UK.

    true any of this really is, I honestly do not know. Over the decades,
    there have been several claims of having found the Ark in different
    areas of the Arafat region.
    Where would that be? Roger


    Hello Roger, Lee and anyone else who is interested in this topic of Noah's Ark.

    I apologize for my absence here the last two days, but it was for a good reason. As a result of our discussion here, I spent the last two days updating an article I first wrote in April of 1997 concerning Noah's Ark and the
    Genesis Flood.

    In fact, for those of you who may be interested, I have put together a small zipped archive of 1.1 MB which contains both the updated two-part series, as well as all of the other material I possess regarding the Ark. It has been sitting on my hard drive for years, and includes old NATO photos, as well as photos from the Associated Press and Life Magazine, and more recent photos of the Durupinaral dig site. After reading and looking at it all, you can each form your own opinions.

    If any of you want a copy of the zipped archive, please netmail me an email address where I can send it to:

    Jeff Snyder, 1:345/3777.0

    You can also read my two-part series online here:

    www.endtimeprophecy.net/EPN-1/Articles/Articles-Scie/noahark1.html

    Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


    --- Hermes Web Tosser 1.1
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  • From Wordweaver@1:345/3777 to Steve Asher on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 16:54:00
    On 04/08/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Steve Asher: Choudary calls for Sharia
    "Law" in UK.

    Since I reject the "noahide laws" as a rejection of God's plan of salvation and eternal life through Jesus Christ, I am not overly concerned by arguments about obligations or otherwise on Jews to enforce these "laws".


    We appear to be on the same team...I think. :)

    Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


    --- Hermes Web Tosser 1.1
    * Origin: Armageddon BBS -- Guam, Mariana Islands (1:345/3777.0)
  • From Wordweaver@1:345/3777 to Steve Asher on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 17:33:00
    On 04/08/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Steve Asher: Choudary calls for Sharia
    "Law" in UK.

    ... or who was regarded by Jews as being "Moshiach", regardless of his origin, but most likely or almost certainly Jewish (IMO).


    I don't know how much of my work you have read, but I tend to agree with you there. I too am more than aware of the Orthodox Jewish expectation of Moshiach ben David, and I also agree that, in my understanding, only one who is of the line of David will be crowned Moshiach, and will be able to sit in the Third Temple. Of course, you and I both know where it goes from there. :)

    They are quite serious - there is some discussion about who will build the Temple (Moshiach?), or whether it is already built, in Heaven, and ready to descend at the time of "G-d's" choosing. Since the previous temples were built by man, it is reasonable to expect that the next one will be built by men, and prophetically to be occupied by the Antichrist (false Messiah).


    Yes, I am aware of this debate as well. I again agree with your reasoning, and do not believe that the Third Temple should be interpreted in a purely spiritual context. I am quite convinced that the next one, if there will be
    a next one -- the treaty will make that possible, I believe -- it will
    likewise be physical in nature, just as the man who will sit in it will also
    be very much physical.

    My interest goes back about 30 years, when as a non-Christian, I became interested in the identity of Antichrist, and who he might be. The most likely candidate is the one the Jews are expecting as "Moshiach", since they (generally) rejected the true Messiah, Jesus Christ, who came in his father's name, and still await a future "messiah", who may appear at any


    It seems as if we have been on the same track in some regards. My interest in eschatological events began in the late sixties, and I have been interested in such things ever since.

    I do have more things to say to you, but I am wondering if perhaps we should switch this conversation to the EDGE_ONLINE echo, being as that is what I originally designed it for, and these topics fit right in. I simply feel somewhat limited regarding what I can say and do in this echo, being as it is not really specifically designed for overtly religious discussions. I'd like
    to respect the sensitivities of others who may visit this echo, and not intentionally push their buttons, or step on their toes.

    We have so much more to discuss, it seems, so let me know if you care to hop
    on over there.

    Thanks!

    Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


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  • From Bob Ackley@1:300/3 to Roger Nelson on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 05:34:36
    Replying to a message of Roger Nelson to Jeff Snyder:

    Noah built a boat in the mountain? Interesting.


    To my knowledge, the Bible does not specifically say where Noah built
    the Ark.

    The best guess anyone has is that Noah lived on the plains between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. That the ark ended up on the mountain
    is in the Bible, but Genesis doesn't state exactly where Noah lived.
    I'm inclined to believe it is according to the best guess stated
    above.

    Archaeologists have found evidence of a massive flood in that area. Dunno if they've pinpointed the time frame, though.

    --- FleetStreet 1.19+
    * Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)
  • From Joe Bruchis@1:123/789 to Wordweaver on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 08:05:33
    Word weaver -> Steve Asher wrote:
    On 04/08/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Steve Asher: Choudary calls for Sharia


    I do have more things to say to you, but I am wondering if perhaps we should
    switch this conversation to the EDGE_ONLINE echo, being as that is what I originally designed it for, and these topics fit right in. I simply feel somewhat limited regarding what I can say and do in this echo, being as
    it is
    not really specifically designed for overtly religious discussions. I'd like
    to respect the sensitivities of others who may visit this echo, and not intentionally push their buttons, or step on their toes.

    I will be very disappointed if Steve Asher continues discussing your warped understanding of the Jewish religion with you. He has stated to me he does not
    go along with your Elders of Zion Protocols developed by Nazis. I assume, similarly he does not believe Jews refer to Christians as Cattle, and that the less than 18 million Jews in the entire world could not possibly be in control of the financial wealth of the world. That is simply ignorant.

    If you think running to another echo will allow you to continue blabbering your
    warped concepts of Judaism and your racist rants, you are wrong. I'll find you wherever you wander. I will counter and set straight all of your lies.


    We have so much more to discuss, it seems, so let me know if you care to hop
    on over there.

    I'll see you there.

    Joe

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302)
    * Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)
  • From Joe Bruchis@1:123/789 to Wordweaver on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 08:27:54
    Wordweaver -> Steve Asher wrote:
    On 04/08/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Steve Asher: Choudary calls for Sharia "Law" in UK.

    Since I reject the "noahide laws" as a rejection of God's plan of
    salvation
    and eternal life through Jesus Christ, I am not overly concerned by
    arguments about obligations or otherwise on Jews to enforce these
    "laws".


    We appear to be on the same team...I think. :)

    So you are recruiting team members?

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302)
    * Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)
  • From Bob Ackley@1:300/3 to Joe Bruchis on Thursday, April 09, 2009 03:57:14
    Replying to a message of Joe Bruchis to Wordweaver:

    I will be very disappointed if Steve Asher continues discussing your warped understanding of the Jewish religion with you. He has stated
    to me he does not go along with your Elders of Zion Protocols
    developed by Nazis.

    That document ("The Protocols of the Elders of Zion") was written by the Russian Czar's secret police sometime right around 1900. While the Nazis *used* that document they did not *write* it.

    --- FleetStreet 1.19+
    * Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)
  • From Lee Lofaso@3:800/432 to Bob Ackley on Saturday, April 11, 2009 17:35:00
    Hello Bob,

    I will be very disappointed if Steve Asher continues discussing your >JB>warped understanding of the Jewish religion with you. He has stated
    to me he does not go along with your Elders of Zion Protocols
    developed by Nazis.

    That document ("The Protocols of the Elders of Zion") was written by the BA>Russian Czar's secret police sometime right around 1900. While the Nazis BA>*used* that document they did not *write* it.

    Russians were always better writers, poets, composers, and artists
    than Germans. Tolstoy, Pushkin, Dostoevsky, Tsvetayeva, Tchaikovski,
    Repin, Vysotsky, etc., along with Nobel Prize Laureates (in literature) Pasternak, Bunin, Solzhenitsn, Brodskiy, and Sholohov. All the Germans
    seem to have is Wagner (extremely loud music) and Hitler (Mein Kampf).

    --Lee


    * SLMR 2.1a * Je t'aime.

    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)
  • From Jeff Snyder@1:345/3777 to Lee Lofaso on Sunday, April 12, 2009 12:37:00
    On 04/12/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Lee Lofaso: Choudary calls for Shari.

    Russians were always better writers, poets, composers, and artists than Germans. Tolstoy, Pushkin, Dostoevsky, Tsvetayeva, Tchaikovski, Repin, Vysotsky, etc., along with Nobel Prize Laureates (in literature) Pasternak, Bunin, Solzhenitsn, Brodskiy, and Sholohov. All the Germans seem to have is Wagner (extremely loud music) and Hitler (Mein Kampf).


    What about German dark beer? No, I don't drink alcoholic beverages, but I just had to throw that out there. :)

    Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


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  • From Joe Bruchis@1:123/789 to Bob Ackley on Sunday, April 12, 2009 08:08:55
    Bob Buckley -> Joe Bruchis wrote:
    Replying to a message of Joe Bruchis to Wordweaver:

    I will be very disappointed if Steve Asher continues discussing your
    warped understanding of the Jewish religion with you. He has stated
    to me he does not go along with your Elders of Zion Protocols
    developed by Nazis.

    That document ("The Protocols of the Elders of Zion") was written by the Russian Czar's secret police sometime right around 1900. While the Nazis *used* that document they did not *write* it.

    I don't understand why such a benign distinction is being made. *Using* it, meaning they adopted it, is no different than if they wrote the document. In any event, it should not be attributed to the "Jews".

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