• Nav

    From RUBEN FIGUEROA@1:124/5013 to All on Thursday, January 31, 2019 19:12:49
    Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:35:37 -0400
    From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
    To: ALL
    Subject: Nav
    Newsgroups: win.navigator
    Message-ID: <1036424755.34.0@winserver.com>
    X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
    Lines: 10

    Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each
    conference to know the difference between private and public so that new messages indicated would not show when it's private and not available to
    you.


    Cheers,

    Wayne
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From RUBEN FIGUEROA@1:124/5013 to All on Thursday, January 31, 2019 19:12:49
    Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:06:27 -0400
    From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
    To: WAYNE TIMBS
    Subject: RE: Nav
    Newsgroups: win.navigator
    Message-ID: <1036424757.34.937182937@winserver.com>
    X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
    X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
    Lines: 18


    On Sep 12, 1999 08:35pm, WAYNE TIMBS wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

    Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each conference to know the difference between private and public so that new messages indicated would not show when it's private and not available to you.

    I read this four times, and I don't understand what you mean by this. :-)

    If its not available to you, how can it be a new message? How would
    you know its there anyway.

    Whats the basic problem? Whats the "relationship" of private/public
    in regards to NEW messges presented to you? Are you just trying
    to say that you want to know in the MESSAGE LIST whether is private
    or public mail?
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From RUBEN FIGUEROA@1:124/5013 to All on Thursday, January 31, 2019 19:12:49
    Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:48:44 -0400
    From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
    To: ALL
    Subject: RE: Nav
    Newsgroups: win.navigator
    Message-ID: <1036424769.34.0@winserver.com>
    X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
    Lines: 41

    Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each conference to know the difference between private and public so
    that new WT> messages indicated would not show when it's private and
    not available to WT> you.

    I read this four times, and I don't understand what you mean by this.
    :-)

    If its not available to you, how can it be a new message? How would
    you know its there anyway.

    Whats the basic problem? Whats the "relationship" of private/public
    in regards to NEW messges presented to you? Are you just trying
    to say that you want to know in the MESSAGE LIST whether is private
    or public mail?


    Covered this in another conference, when someone was posting "Reset
    pointer" messages.

    wcNav shows which conferences have new mail by showing the conference
    name in bold. Apparently this is triggered by comparing the high message
    number in the conference with the last-read marker.

    However, if the only messages after your last-read marker are message
    you don't have read rights to (private mail not to/from you), then when
    you open the conference listed in bold there's nothing new there for you
    to read. To make matters worse, the conference stays bold the next time
    you log in, even if there haven't been any new mail (since there wasn't anything you were allowed to read, your last-read marker wasn't
    updated, so it's still lower than the high message number).

    Improved logic would have wcNav (or the server -- whichever end does
    this) compare the last-read marker to the high message number, and
    *THEN* start checking to see if any of the "new" messages are visible to
    this user. As soon as it finds one, it can mark the conference bold
    (there's new mail that's visible to this user). If it gets to the high
    message pointer without finding one (all the new messages aren't
    visible to this user because they're private and he can't read private
    mail), then it wouldn't mark the conference bold.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From RUBEN FIGUEROA@1:124/5013 to All on Thursday, January 31, 2019 19:12:49
    Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:58:30 -0400
    From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
    To: EARL BORAH
    Subject: RE: Nav
    Newsgroups: win.navigator
    Message-ID: <1036424773.34.937198124@winserver.com>
    X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
    Lines: 71

    Whats the basic problem?


    However, if the only messages after your last-read marker are message
    you don't have read rights to (private mail not to/from you), then when
    you open the conference listed in bold there's nothing new there for you
    to read.

    Is this a matter of "False Mail Indication"?

    Improved logic would have wcNav (or the server -- whichever end does
    this) compare the last-read marker to the high message number, and
    *THEN* start checking to see if any of the "new" messages are visible to this user.

    Nahh, that would DRASTICALLY slow down the system.

    There is simply isn't any way to solve this problem in an OPTIMAL
    manner.

    We can probably say that IDEALLY there should be additional visual
    information:

    GREY - nothing
    RED - New Mail (Includes Direct Mail)
    BLACK - New Mail (No Direct Mail)

    The RED is easy. There is a DIRECT MAIL indicator that.

    But to see if there a new readable mail in a CONFERENCE, that
    would DRASTICALLY slow down the system. BIG TIME!

    A regular user would have a NORMALIZED system, meaning that
    the differences between the highs and the lows would not
    be large. Hence it "could be" bearable.

    But in a large mail system where there LOTS of new mail and
    you don't call regularily, it will KILL him.

    Again, there is a Last Read for that user. Whats in between
    that LAST READ and the HIGH MARK, is completely UNKNOWN.

    I'm not going to change the logic to READ the messages for
    each and every conference listing just to get ACCURATE
    indicator.

    The best that can be done is to have some "smarts" built
    into the system such as:

    PRIVATE MAIL ONLY CONFERFENCE:

    Automatically set pointer to HIGH for user or to
    the first DIRECT message.

    PUBLIC ONLY:

    Nothing has to be done. Its perfect as it is.

    PRIVATE/PUBLIC:

    Automatically set pointer to the FIRST DIRECT or
    the FIRST NEW PUBLIC message whichever is the
    the lowest.

    With this logic, a COLOR system can be use and be
    100% accurate.

    But this isn't going to happen now. This would be
    most definitely a WINS2000 exploration concept.

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From RUBEN FIGUEROA@1:124/5013 to All on Thursday, January 31, 2019 19:12:49
    Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:49:05 -0400
    From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
    To: ALL
    Subject: RE: Nav
    Newsgroups: win.navigator
    Message-ID: <1036424778.34.0@winserver.com>
    X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
    Lines: 20

    Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each conference to know the difference between private and public so that
    new
    messages indicated would not show when it's private and not available
    to
    you.

    I read this four times, and I don't understand what you mean by this. :-)
    in regards to NEW messges presented to you? Are you just trying

    Hi Hector, to experience this turn off your sysop ability to read all
    messages and then when someone writes a private message to someone else, in the Nav message client it will show in bold that that conference has a new
    message in it that since you can't read it the conference will remain bold as there is new message in it till someone post a message later than the private one that you can read that changes the new message flag. This is the reason I post a public reset message in some conferences that don't get much traffic
    to get rid of the new message indicator.

    Cheers,

    Wayne
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From RUBEN FIGUEROA@1:124/5013 to All on Thursday, January 31, 2019 19:12:49
    Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:06:08 -0400
    From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
    To: ALL
    Subject: RE: Nav
    Newsgroups: win.navigator
    Message-ID: <1036424782.34.0@winserver.com>
    X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
    Lines: 18


    On Sep 12, 1999 08:35pm, WAYNE TIMBS wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

    Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each conference to know the difference between private and public so that
    new
    messages indicated would not show when it's private and not available
    to
    you.

    I read this four times, and I don't understand what you mean by this. :-)

    If its not available to you, how can it be a new message? How would
    you know its there anyway.

    I think he means how wcNav will show a conference bolded that has new
    messages in it that are not available to you because they are private messages to
    someone else.

    Perry
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From RUBEN FIGUEROA@1:124/5013 to All on Thursday, January 31, 2019 19:12:49
    Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:10:53 -0400
    From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
    To: ALL
    Subject: RE: Nav
    Newsgroups: win.navigator
    Message-ID: <1036424797.34.0@winserver.com>
    X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
    Lines: 38



    On Sep 12, 1999 08:35pm, WAYNE TIMBS wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

    Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each conference to know the difference between private and public so
    that new WT> messages indicated would not show when it's private and
    not available to WT> you.

    I read this four times, and I don't understand what you mean by this.
    :-)

    If its not available to you, how can it be a new message? How would
    you know its there anyway.

    Whats the basic problem? Whats the "relationship" of private/public
    in regards to NEW messges presented to you? Are you just trying
    to say that you want to know in the MESSAGE LIST whether is private
    or public mail?

    Here is the problem, when I open up wcNAV message client and it list all
    of the echos some are bold(new messages are present) or not bold(no new messages). What happens is when I go into a bold message area there
    should be new messages for me to see. If the message was set to private
    and is the last message in that echo then I will continue to get this
    bold status because I cannot read the message that is triggering the
    bold to be on. So when the message client scans for new messages in the
    echo, it also needs to check whether or not I have access to read it and
    if not then don't bold the echo as having new mail in it for me to read.
    It seems that the message client only looks at my last read pointer
    instead of really finding out if I read all the mail I can in that echo.

    Hope this makes sense! :)




    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From RUBEN FIGUEROA@1:124/5013 to All on Thursday, January 31, 2019 19:12:49
    Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:41:40 -0400
    From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
    To: EARL BORAH
    Subject: RE: Nav
    Newsgroups: win.navigator
    Message-ID: <1036424799.34.937240059@winserver.com>
    X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
    Lines: 38

    Here's the code I use in the custom htmlutil-msg I made for WMP:


    // MY ADDITION - check for unread messages

    if SearchMessageById(c, GetLastRead(c), msg) then
    if msg.id > GetLastRead(c) then
    // Last read was deleted, but there's a newer message
    TemplateSetVariable("confnew", str(TRUE))
    else // Last read found, look for next
    TemplateSetVariable("confnew", str(GetNextMessage(msg)))
    end if
    else // Last read was deleted, can't find newer message
    TemplateSetVariable("confnew", str(FALSE))
    end if

    // END ADDITION


    Just a clarification.

    The theory is that this code wouldn't slow down things too much more
    than they are now. There are a maximum of 3 server calls (GetLastRead, SearchMessageById, and GetNextMessage) in the code. The GetNextMessage
    isn't called under all circumstances, so often there are only 2 server
    calls.

    From the way wcNav behaves I assume you're already doing two calls
    (GetLastRead and GetHighMessageNumber), so it's really a maximum of one
    extra call to the server. I'm not sure how much load SearchMessageById
    and GetNextMessage generate compared to just GetHighMessageNumber, so
    all things may not be equal, but it's still a pretty compact piece of
    code.


    I intentionally made this as compact as possible, with as few server
    calls as possible. What do you think?
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From RUBEN FIGUEROA@1:124/5013 to All on Thursday, January 31, 2019 19:12:49
    Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:13:49 -0400
    From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
    To: EARL BORAH
    Subject: RE: Nav
    Newsgroups: win.navigator
    Message-ID: <1036424804.34.937255300@winserver.com>
    X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
    Lines: 15


    On Sep 13, 1999 04:41pm, EARL BORAH wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

    Here's the code I use in the custom htmlutil-msg I made for WMP:

    Just a clarification.

    Sorry, but that logic isn't going to be used here.

    Please don't make a spectacle out of this too. Besides I asked
    for MINOR issues. This isn't minor.

    Thanks

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From Gryphon@1:106/324 to RUBEN FIGUEROA on Friday, February 01, 2019 07:00:14
    Ruben,

    Thanks for the walk down memory lane. :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A41 2018/12/27 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Cyberia BBS | cyberiabbs.zapto.org | San Jose, CA (1:106/324)
  • From Zazz@1:124/5014 to Gryphon on Friday, February 01, 2019 12:47:55
    |10On 01 Feb 2019, Gryphon said the following...|10

    Ruben,

    Thanks for the walk down memory lane. :)


    Too many people to apologize too. Hopefully it is fixed.

    Ruben Figueroa aka Zazz
    Mystic Prison Board Sysop
    telnet://pb.darktech.org:24
    Web: www.rdfig.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/30 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Mystic Prison Board*Mesquite Tx*pb.darktech.org:24 (1:124/5014)