I have accounts on Twitter and Facebook and a few others, but I rarely use them. Mostly just consume data from a few of the organizations I volunteer for who opt to use those platforms as their public voice. But now that Tesla dude owns Twitter I'm reading many of the non-mainstream social media platforms are getting a boost. Wonder if many folks who are aware of BBSes will move here to find some outlet. Probably only the nerdiest of the nerdiest would, but still even if a small fraction did would be neat to see.
Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages? Very nice, reminds me of Reddit ;-)
Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages? Very nice, reminds me of Reddit ;-)
Tesla dude owns Twitter I'm reading many of the non-mainstream social media platforms are getting a boost. Wonder if many folks who are aware of BBSes will move here to find some outlet. Probably only the nerdiest of
Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages? Very nice, reminds me of Reddit ;-)
I have accounts on Twitter and Facebook and a few others, but I rarely use them.
Mostly just consume data from a few of the organizations I volunteer for who opt
use those platforms as their public voice. But now that Tesla dude owns Twitter
reading many of the non-mainstream social media platforms are getting a boost.
Wonder if many folks who are aware of BBSes will move here to find some outlet.
Probably only the nerdiest of the nerdiest would, but still even if a small fract
did would be neat to see.
Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages? Very ni
reminds me of Reddit ;-)
Nightfox wrote to Sam Alexander <=-
What are these non-mainstream social media platforms you speak of? I thought most people had moved to Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. I didn't think others such as MySpace, LiveJournal, Orkut, and others
were used much anymore.
Nightfox wrote to Sam Alexander <=-
What are these non-mainstream social media platforms you speak of? I thought most people had moved to Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. I didn't think others such as MySpace, LiveJournal, Orkut, and others were used much anymore.
Remember when the "If you don't like how our platform is run, start your own" saying?
Well, several started. MeWe is sort of like Facebook. Gab is sort of like Twitter. Rumble and BitChute are like YouTube. I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones I use.
Remember when the "If you don't like how our platform is run, start your own" saying?
Well, several started. MeWe is sort of like Facebook. Gab is sort of like Twitter. Rumble and BitChute are like YouTube. I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones I use.
I feel that, even though the Federation / Fediverse has been a nerdy experim mostly among fringe and nerds, the dramatic increase in it (namely, Mastodon thanks to Tusk's acquisition of Twitter is going to launch a new renaissance Definitely provides food for thought along-side the Alt Soc Med.
Nightfox wrote to Sam Alexander <=-
What are these non-mainstream social media platforms you speak of? I though
most people had moved to Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. I didn't think
others such as MySpace, LiveJournal, Orkut, and others
were used much anymore.
Remember when the "If you don't like how our platform is run, start your own"
saying?
Well, several started. MeWe is sort of like Facebook. Gab is sort of like Twitt
Rumble and BitChute are like YouTube. I'm sure there are more, but those are the
ones I use.
... Money talks - mine says "Goodbye"
When the Spanish TV released some news about Quitter, a group of nodes from the Fediverse, portraying it as an anticapitalist version of Twitter, there was an avalanche and their services got overloaded.
A month later all the newcomers had left for good.
People is not constant at all.
When the Spanish TV released some news about Quitter, a group of nodes from the Fediverse, portraying it as an anticapitalist version of Twitter, there was an avalanche and their services got overloaded.
A month later all the newcomers had left for good.
People is not constant at all.
About the only "social media" sites that really stand a chance as a startup are things like internet
forums that are focused on a niche topic. Even Facebook has killed off a ton of those with "groups",
but
forums are still leaps and bounds better with the ability to easily search for information, especially
if
stuff is well organized.
That said, I do think that the temporary surge in the Fediverse will be short-lived. Social Networks depend upon the social networking effect, and y need a critical mass of users and interactivity to deal with that.
The systems we think of when we talk about social network do depend on having a critical mass of users to be relevant, or they will fall back into obscurity as far as the public eye is concerned. However, a system does not need to be popular to be useful.
As I have said elsewhere, I don't care if the IRC server I host in my closet is popular or not if my three friends happen to be there.
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: DaiTengu to Arelor on Sat Apr 30 2022 11:58 am
About the only "social media" sites that really stand a chance as a startup ar
things like internet forums that are focused on a niche topic. Even Facebook
killed off a ton of those with "groups", but
forums are still leaps and bounds better with the ability to easily search for
information, especially if
stuff is well organized.
So very true, DaiTengu. I was having an extensive conversation with other legacy
forum admins over the past couple of weeks, and pointing out just how social medi
in particularly, Facebook Groups, Reddit, and to a lesser extent, Discord - has
radically displaced niche forums. But the loss of discoverability, thanks to Goo
penalizing user generated content on forums and the like, has rendered most forum
whether they are on Facebook or are independently operating - largely invisible.
If I were starting a new social media or community website today, I would focus o
super simple and intuitive interface with an emphasis on discovery, sharing, and
ease of use. But then again, that's why we have Twitter and the federated alternatives on ActivityPub.
-=- Kaelon -=- kaelon@kaelon.com -=-
It is like we are living in a new Dark Age. The old websites have dissappeared,and
with Social Media, forum discussions are missing now too from web searched. It's fine for Google not to index general discussion (I'd prefer it doesn't), but when the group on Facebook is about how to fix hardware, and people are sharing solutions, its good to be able to find these.
Facebook is terrible for that, which is why people keep posting the same questions over and over again.
Completely agree with you. Web forums have always been pretty terrible for archival purposes, and even with public benefit organizations, like the Internet Archive and its Way Back Machine, findability and discovery are basically impossible and there are always limits.
The Dark Age of Social Media has with it very steep prices, but it does seem like there is, at the very least, a genuine awakening to the dangers and the loss of human knowledge that this poses. You are so right that people keep asking the same questions over and over again, and whether it's Facebook or Reddit or, even worse, Discord groups, it's impossible for people to build a collective knowledge to advance awareness.
-=- Kaelon -=-
The best was simple web pages set up by people who knew their subject, and put their findings on the Internet for posterity. They too are harder to find, but you come accross them from time to time. Simple HTML pages, some inline images, thats it. I save webpages that are good references to an archive hard disk, incase I need it later and the site or page dissapears.
Kaelon wrote to Boraxman <=-
The best was simple web pages set up by people who knew their subject, and put their findings on the Internet for posterity. They too are harder to find, but you come accross them from time to time. Simple HTML pages, some inline images, thats it. I save webpages that are good references to an archive hard disk, incase I need it later and the site or page dissapears.
I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because
virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you
see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.
Re: your later statement about what will stand the test of time, as
much as I like to think that a digital archive will be the enduring
trove of our lifetimes, I am genuinely worried that the continuing obsolescence of media, operating systems, and formats will lead to a
great Dark Age of knowledge, when computers of the future won't be able
to read the files from today, let alone the 1980s or 1990s.
People keep insisting that the best way to preserve knowledge is to
print it out. I'm just glad that I never became a true digital native, despite having been raised in the 1980s and 1990s and growing up around systems. I always print pretty much everything; it's how my brain
works! _____
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-
I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because
virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you
see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto
a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still
readable.
Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept data donations, including software and underlying packages, for posterity.
2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in
2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in
Family Tree Maker by chance? I had the same/similar experience.
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.
Subject: Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
@MSGID: <627151ED.5121.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
@TZ: c1e0
Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-
I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.
Wordpress.com is a good starting point, they have a great UI, free plans, and you can export your data to your self-hosted wordpress instance when you're ready.
I've captured information for posterity, shared photos, and written a FAQ that are all hosted on a site I started in 2000.
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
I so wish I spent more money on data storage back in the 90s and kept better backups. As it is, I have a backup from 1994 and 1999, and that's it.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
... A journey of a thousand sandwiches begins with a single cut.
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-
Nightfox
Kaelon wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <627142DE.8494.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
@REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on
Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
Very well stated. And this is the tragedy, really, of our current
digital ecosystem. In the late 1980s, my dad interviewed the entire
family and built a comprehensive family tree stretching back into the 1400s -- which he then reconciled with Church records in Spain to go
back even further! -- but he stored it on tape backup.
Two problems:
1. The tape backup, which for all you know may still be readable,
depends upon hardware that is no longer produced.
2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in disks somewhere, but it's probably 5 1/4" disks rather than the somewhat-more-manageable 3 1/2", which also poses other media problems.
Between the loss of media inter-operability and format / software conversion, that entire labor - and the wealth of family knowledge from relatives who have since passed on - is, as far as the rest of the
family is concerned, totally lost.
How do we even begin to solve problems as large as human history's recorded deficit, when we can't even deal with the BBS'es from the
1990s or family trees from the 1980s? _____
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <627151ED.5121.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-
I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because
virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you
see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.
Wordpress.com is a good starting point, they have a great UI, free
plans, and you can export your data to your self-hosted wordpress
instance when you're ready.
I've captured information for posterity, shared photos, and written a
FAQ that are all hosted on a site I started in 2000.
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
I so wish I spent more money on data storage back in the 90s and kept better backups. As it is, I have a backup from 1994 and 1999, and
that's it.
That is such a shame... I've moved away from proprietary software and propreitary formats, to storing important data in as an accessible format as you can. Plain text, or markup, or some schema that is still plain text (ie, XML or even an Emacs ORG mode file).
You may lose the software which manages it, but a text editor can still reveal the data.
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Tue May 03 2022 03:23 pm
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto
a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still
readable.
Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept data donations, including software and underlying packages, for posterity.
That's an idea. It has registered copies of some software though (including RemoteAccess, a FTN mail tosser, and a copule registered BBS doors which I still run on my current BBS).
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Digital Man to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 10:16 pm
2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in
Family Tree Maker by chance? I had the same/similar experience.
Actually, I think that's the one. I'll have to check with my dad; he's off on a geriatric escape with fellow old fogeys to Spain, and I know he's thinking about the family tree stuff.
I wonder what, if anything, we can do to read the data and convert it. Definitely a project worth him undertaking and me helping him out; the insights there are priceless.
My grandmother, in my case, collected all the data and stories into a word processor (Galaxy) and FTM. We helped her to print the entire tree on a dot matrix printer and then taped the pages together. Fun project, but not sure how much of that effort remains in a useable form. Now with 23andme and Ancestry, they can automate much of that work (through bloodlines, at least).
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
@MSGID: <627231D5.1252.dove-int@bbses.info>
@REPLY: <6271866E.5586.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pm
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.
it's readable until it isn't. it depends on that day in the factory,
the media type, your drive, and the environment it's in.
even in a perfect environment i had cds rot
Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I have used wordpress sites, but not wordpress.com. It is pretty good, and easy to get up and running. I have a half developed site, but
decided to just go with plain HTML and CSS.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <6273D46B.5137.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <62725ADD.5367.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I have used wordpress sites, but not wordpress.com. It is pretty good, and easy to get up and running. I have a half developed site, but
decided to just go with plain HTML and CSS.
There's a package called Blosxsom that had promise - you leave text
files in a directory on a web server and Blosxom formats it, adds
headers/footers/sidebars/styles.
I like that idea.
I know there are a ton of static web page generators, WP is typically
overkill for most.
It would be nice for people to get back to publishing their own
content again, although if you're looking to get your writing seen,
you're better off on Medium or Substack.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
@MSGID: <627231D5.1252.dove-int@bbses.info>
@REPLY: <6271866E.5586.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pm
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wo wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at a the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are n lost forever?
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.
it's readable until it isn't. it depends on that day in the factory, the media type, your drive, and the environment it's in.
even in a perfect environment i had cds rot
Mine are all good, including DVD's, except for a few which have deteriorated around the edges. A bad lot from one spindle.
But the last time you checked, may be the last time you could have ever read the disk, so it is best to move them to Hard Drive and make a backup of the Hard Drive if you don't want to lose the files.
Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
It worries me that as things get more centralised, it would give these people who hold the keys more power to gatekeep. If substack is taken over or capture by ideologues, a real threat for anything in a Western, especially American country, then authors and views will be made to dissapear.
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 03:55 pm
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Tue May 03 2022 03:23 pm
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto
a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still
readable.
Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept data donations, including software and underlying packages, for posterity.
That's an idea. It has registered copies of some software though (including RemoteAccess, a FTN mail tosser, and a copule registered BBS doors which I still run on my current BBS).
Be sure to wipe passwords, phone numers, etc. too.
Mine are all good, including DVD's, except for a few which have deteriorated around the edges. A bad lot from one spindle.
But the last time you checked, may be the last time you could have ever read the disk, so it is best to move them to Hard Drive and make a backup of the Hard Drive if you don't want to lose the files.
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