• Opinion on Pascal

    From Darkages to All on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 04:35:11
    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ DarkAges BBS | darkagesbbs.com | 1:19/25 | Wayne, OK
  • From Steven Sheeley@INFINITY to Darkages on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 11:28:48
    Hello Darkages!

    16 Nov 16 04:35, you wrote to all:

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Pascal is what I am using. Mainly for the cross platform ability. Specifically Free Pascal with the Lazarus IDE. I'm currently coding Wycker, a Log Analyzer, Archiver and Bulletin generator for BBS Software.

    Steven


    ... I call things as I see them; If I didn't see them, I make them up!
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    ■ Synchronet ■ Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV
  • From Tiny@PHARCYDE to Darkages on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 10:59:04
    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the
    syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    --- Ezycom V3.00 01FB001F
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - tinysbbs.com (723:1/2)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Accession@PHARCYDE to Tiny on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 10:55:00
    Hello Tiny,

    On 16 Nov 16 10:59, Tiny wrote to Darkages:

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Is the "." after "end" a syntax error? :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (723:1/1)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Meh@NIMBUS to Steven Sheeley on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 13:01:16
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Steven Sheeley to Darkages on Wed Nov 16 2016 11:28 am

    Last programming I did was in the 70's using Time-Share Basic from HP. Also dallied in Fortran.
    Ralph Smole,Sysop.
    The Nimbus BBS
    Briar,TX

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Nimbus BBS - nimbus.synchro.net
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Tiny on Thursday, November 17, 2016 08:36:00
    Tiny wrote to Darkages <=-

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Haha, that would be my response too. :-)


    ... Old Celts never die, they just have harp failure.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Accession on Thursday, November 17, 2016 08:37:00
    Accession wrote to Tiny <=-

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Is the "." after "end" a syntax error? :)

    Nope, the end of the peogram ends with a ., not a ;


    ... If what you don't know can't hurt you, she's practically invulnerable.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Darkages on Thursday, November 17, 2016 08:39:00
    Darkages wrote to All <=-

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    I like it, never had trouble with the syntax. For confusing, try obfuscated C (C code deliberately written to be hard to read). :D


    ... It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Darkages to Steven Sheeley on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 12:31:34
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Steven Sheeley to Darkages on Wed Nov 16 2016 11:28 am

    Hello Darkages!

    16 Nov 16 04:35, you wrote to all:

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Pascal is what I am using. Mainly for the cross platform ability. Specifical
    ly Free Pascal with the Lazarus

    Steven


    ... I call things as I see them; If I didn't see them, I make them up!

    Something that I did like about Free Pascal was the lovely compiler, `fpc`. The error messages are very clear and it was fun to compile with.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ DarkAges BBS | darkagesbbs.com | 1:19/25 | Wayne, OK
  • From Darkages to Tiny on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 12:32:33
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Tiny to Darkages on Wed Nov 16 2016 10:59 am

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.


    Add some if statements and then the whole thing with when using end and when not and then to use "then" (which I believe must be used?) and when to use semi-colons. So confusing to me.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ DarkAges BBS | darkagesbbs.com | 1:19/25 | Wayne, OK
  • From Darkages to Accession on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 12:33:19
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Accession to Tiny on Wed Nov 16 2016 10:55 am

    Hello Tiny,

    On 16 Nov 16 10:59, Tiny wrote to Darkages:

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Is the "." after "end" a syntax error? :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."

    No it is not. The main procedure must have a `.` at the end of its "end" unlike the rest of the procedures that end in `;`.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ DarkAges BBS | darkagesbbs.com | 1:19/25 | Wayne, OK
  • From Accession@PHARCYDE to Vk3jed on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 19:54:22
    Hello Vk3jed,

    On 17 Nov 16 08:37, Vk3jed wrote to Accession:

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Is the "." after "end" a syntax error? :)

    Nope, the end of the peogram ends with a ., not a ;

    Well then. I learned something new today! :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (723:1/1)
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  • From Zero Reader@ALKY to Darkages on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 23:14:00
    On 11/16/16, Darkages said the following...

    Add some if statements and then the whole thing with when using end and when not and then to use "then" (which I believe must be used?) and when to use semi-colons. So confusing to me.

    This is why I like python:

    print "I like it."

    It "types" well as they say.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io
  • From Darkages to Vk3jed on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 23:34:02
    Nope, the end of the peogram ends with a ., not a ;

    ... If what you don't know can't hurt you, she's practically invulnerable. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    Γûá Synchronet Γûá Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.


    Anything that comes after it will not be run.

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  • From Darkages to Vk3jed on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 23:34:50
    I like it, never had trouble with the syntax. For confusing, try obfuscated C (C code deliberately written to be hard to read). :D

    ... It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    Γûá Synchronet Γûá Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.


    Maybe I will check out Pascal again some time in my life.

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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Accession on Thursday, November 17, 2016 20:48:00
    Accession wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Nope, the end of the peogram ends with a ., not a ;

    Well then. I learned something new today! :)

    Yep. :)


    ... !enilgat cinataS !eraweB µ
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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Darkages on Thursday, November 17, 2016 20:49:00
    Darkages wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Anything that comes after it will not be run.

    That's it. It's all coming back to me. :)


    ... Where there's a will, there's a lawsuit.
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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Darkages on Thursday, November 17, 2016 20:50:00
    Darkages wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Maybe I will check out Pascal again some time in my life.

    Yep, give it another whirl. I'm looking forward to relearning myself.


    ... Better one true friend than a hundred relatives.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Darkages to Accession on Thursday, November 17, 2016 00:39:50
    Hello Vk3jed,

    On 17 Nov 16 08:37, Vk3jed wrote to Accession:

    Well then. I learned something new today! :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю." --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (723:1/1)
    Γûá Synchronet Γûá thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)


    That's good to hear.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ DarkAges BBS | darkagesbbs.com | 1:19/25 | Wayne, OK
  • From Tiny@PHARCYDE to Accession on Thursday, November 17, 2016 11:27:48
    Quoting Accession to Tiny <=-

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Is the "." after "end" a syntax error? :)

    Not in this case as it's the last line of the program. ;)

    Shawn

    ... Among economists, the real world is considered to be a special case.

    --- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
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    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Darkages to Vk3jed on Thursday, November 17, 2016 06:25:58
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Vk3jed to Darkages on Thu Nov 17 2016 08:50 pm

    Darkages wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Maybe I will check out Pascal again some time in my life.

    Yep, give it another whirl. I'm looking forward to relearning myself.


    ... Better one true friend than a hundred relatives.

    I like the syntax but I thiunk it could be better. The ekywords confused me.

    But then again many languages have features I am not yet aware of or I am aware of but do not know how they work. Anyway. I shouldn't complain much or at all.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ DarkAges BBS | darkagesbbs.com | 1:19/25 | Wayne, OK
  • From Poindexter Fortran@REALITY to Vk3jed on Thursday, November 17, 2016 14:01:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Darkages <=-

    Darkages wrote to All <=-

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    I like it, never had trouble with the syntax.

    I started programming in FORTRAN, then went on to Pascal and C. I'd
    like to get back into PASCAL, reminds me of all of the BBS source code
    I played with in Turbo Pascal.

    Embarcadero now owns TP and they have TP 5.5 available for free - http://cc.embarcadero.com/Free.aspx?id=26015



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  • From Mro@BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Thursday, November 17, 2016 17:56:06
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Vk3jed to Darkages on Thu Nov 17 2016 08:49 pm

    Darkages wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Anything that comes after it will not be run.

    That's it. It's all coming back to me. :)




    now i see. it's all coming back to me. said the blind man to his deaf wife as he pissed in the wind.
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    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Darkages on Friday, November 18, 2016 19:04:00
    Darkages wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I like the syntax but I thiunk it could be better. The ekywords
    confused me.

    But then again many languages have features I am not yet aware of or I
    am aware of but do not know how they work. Anyway. I shouldn't complain much or at all.

    I think any language is going to have one issue or another. :)


    ... 'Stupidity, if left untreated, is self-correcting' RAH.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Poindexter Fortran on Friday, November 18, 2016 19:07:00
    Poindexter Fortran wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I started programming in FORTRAN, then went on to Pascal and C. I'd
    like to get back into PASCAL, reminds me of all of the BBS source code
    I played with in Turbo Pascal.

    I started with BASIC in a couple of dialects - Applesoft and MBASIC for starters, then moved to Pascal. I did use FORTRAN briefly at uni, liked its mathematical functions, especially native support of complex numbers, meaning I didn't have to keep copying and pasting my complex number code (in those days I used TP 3.0, so no unit support). As an electronic engineering student, complex numbers were frequently encountered. :)


    ... If at first you don't succeed - so much for skydiving.
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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Mro on Friday, November 18, 2016 19:07:00
    Mro wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    now i see. it's all coming back to me. said the blind man to his deaf wife as he pissed in the wind.
    ---

    LOL


    ... !edis gnorw eht morf siht ta gnikool era uoY
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  • From Darkages to Poindexter Fortran on Friday, November 18, 2016 10:20:59
    On 2016-11-18 12:01 AM, Poindexter Fortran wrote:
    Vk3jed wrote to Darkages <=-

    Darkages wrote to All <=-

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    I like it, never had trouble with the syntax.

    I started programming in FORTRAN, then went on to Pascal and C. I'd
    like to get back into PASCAL, reminds me of all of the BBS source code
    I played with in Turbo Pascal.

    Embarcadero now owns TP and they have TP 5.5 available for free - http://cc.embarcadero.com/Free.aspx?id=26015



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    Awesome. Fortran has a sexy way of declaring variables

    integer :: age
    age = 2

    or with assignment

    integer :: age = 2

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  • From Steven Sheeley@INFINITY to Poindexter Fortran on Friday, November 18, 2016 07:35:16
    Hello Poindexter!

    17 Nov 16 14:01, you wrote to Vk3jed:

    I started programming in FORTRAN, then went on to Pascal and C. I'd
    like to get back into PASCAL, reminds me of all of the BBS source code
    I played with in Turbo Pascal.

    Embarcadero now owns TP and they have TP 5.5 available for free - http://cc.embarcadero.com/Free.aspx?id=26015

    I use the FreePascal compiler and the Lazarus IDE for programming currently, mainly because I am looking for cross compatibility and I know pascal (Or at least I did, a few years back).


    Steven


    ... I'm spending a year dead for tax purposes.
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    ■ Synchronet ■ Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV
  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Zero Reader on Friday, November 18, 2016 22:14:07
    On 2016-11-17 01:14 AM, Zero Reader wrote:
    On 11/16/16, Darkages said the following...

    Add some if statements and then the whole thing with when using end and when not and then to use "then" (which I believe must be used?) and when to use semi-colons. So confusing to me.

    This is why I like python:

    print "I like it."

    It "types" well as they say.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io

    `print` is no longer a keyword in Python3 but in Python2 it is.

    Now we use a function named `print` like so `print("Hello World")`.

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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Steven Sheeley on Saturday, November 19, 2016 08:37:00
    Steven Sheeley wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

    I use the FreePascal compiler and the Lazarus IDE for programming currently, mainly because I am looking for cross compatibility and I
    know pascal (Or at least I did, a few years back).

    That's the same reason I'm leaning towards FPC/Lazarus. :)


    ... Fear is no great respecter of reason.
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    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Steven Sheeley on Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:59:27
    On 2016-11-18 02:35 PM, Steven Sheeley wrote:
    Hello Poindexter!

    17 Nov 16 14:01, you wrote to Vk3jed:

    I started programming in FORTRAN, then went on to Pascal and C. I'd
    like to get back into PASCAL, reminds me of all of the BBS source code
    I played with in Turbo Pascal.

    Embarcadero now owns TP and they have TP 5.5 available for free - http://cc.embarcadero.com/Free.aspx?id=26015

    I use the FreePascal compiler and the Lazarus IDE for programming currently, mainly because I am looking for cross compatibility and I know pascal (Or at least I did, a few years back).


    Steven


    ... I'm spending a year dead for tax purposes.
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    � Synchronet � Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV

    Lazarus still has a following and Pascal is not dead. The Nim
    programming language has its compiler written in Pascal.

    ---
    Synchronet Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net
  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Vk3jed on Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:59:45
    On 2016-11-19 12:37 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Steven Sheeley wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

    I use the FreePascal compiler and the Lazarus IDE for programming currently, mainly because I am looking for cross compatibility and I know pascal (Or at least I did, a few years back).

    That's the same reason I'm leaning towards FPC/Lazarus. :)


    ... Fear is no great respecter of reason.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.


    FPC is good.

    ---
    Synchronet Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net
  • From Steven Sheeley@INFINITY to Deavmi on Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:42:48
    Hello Deavmi!

    19 Nov 16 11:59, you wrote to me:

    Lazarus still has a following and Pascal is not dead. The Nim
    programming language has its compiler written in Pascal.

    The main reason for me is the fact that most of the BBS software source I can find is in Pascal (Usually TP7 or Delphi) and, instead of reinventing the wheel, it's just eaier to reuse the existing source code, save, of course, the new game I am developing. And, since everything else is in Pascal, I suspect I'll stick with Pascal for CorpWars.

    Steven


    ... The speed of time is one second per second.
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    ■ Synchronet ■ Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV
  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Steven Sheeley on Sunday, November 20, 2016 10:48:57
    On 2016-11-19 06:42 PM, Steven Sheeley wrote:
    Hello Deavmi!

    19 Nov 16 11:59, you wrote to me:

    Lazarus still has a following and Pascal is not dead. The Nim programming language has its compiler written in Pascal.

    The main reason for me is the fact that most of the BBS software source I can find is in Pascal (Usually TP7 or Delphi) and, instead of reinventing the wheel, it's just eaier to reuse the existing source code, save, of course, the new game I am developing. And, since everything else is in Pascal, I suspect I'll stick with Pascal for CorpWars.

    Steven


    ... The speed of time is one second per second.
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    � Synchronet � Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV


    Cooleo.

    Have you tried out Modula-3 as it is a language that I think just for
    fun I would like to learn in the near future. I have some documentation printed on it, filed away in my archives.

    Modula-3 is a Wirthian language (like Pascal is - developed by Niklaus
    Wirth).

    ---
    Synchronet Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net
  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Deavmi on Sunday, November 20, 2016 10:49:12
    On 2016-11-20 10:48 AM, Deavmi wrote:
    On 2016-11-19 06:42 PM, Steven Sheeley wrote:
    Hello Deavmi!

    19 Nov 16 11:59, you wrote to me:

    Lazarus still has a following and Pascal is not dead. The Nim
    programming language has its compiler written in Pascal.

    The main reason for me is the fact that most of the BBS software
    source I can find is in Pascal (Usually TP7 or Delphi) and, instead of
    reinventing the wheel, it's just eaier to reuse the existing source
    code, save, of course, the new game I am developing. And, since
    everything else is in Pascal, I suspect I'll stick with Pascal for
    CorpWars.

    Steven


    ... The speed of time is one second per second.
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    � Synchronet � Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV


    Cooleo.

    Have you tried out Modula-3 as it is a language that I think just for
    fun I would like to learn in the near future. I have some documentation printed on it, filed away in my archives.

    Modula-3 is a Wirthian language (like Pascal is - developed by Niklaus Wirth).

    Modula-3 also follows closely to the Pascal syntax.

    ---
    Synchronet Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net
  • From Steven Sheeley@INFINITY to Deavmi on Sunday, November 20, 2016 08:59:37
    Hello Deavmi!

    20 Nov 16 10:48, you wrote to me:

    Cooleo.

    Have you tried out Modula-3 as it is a language that I think just for
    fun I would like to learn in the near future. I have some
    documentation printed on it, filed away in my archives.

    Modula-3 is a Wirthian language (like Pascal is - developed by Niklaus
    Wirth).

    Nope, never looked at it. I do PHP, Javascript (Barely) and Pascal currently.

    Steven


    ... Transporter room, beam that Tagline up immediately!
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    ■ Synchronet ■ Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Steven Sheeley on Monday, November 21, 2016 07:50:00
    Steven Sheeley wrote to Deavmi <=-

    ... Transporter room, beam that Tagline up immediately!

    Tagline is aboard. :D


    ... This tagline is freeware; future support is unavailable.
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  • From Chris@DMINE to Darkages on Wednesday, November 23, 2016 23:25:14
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Darkages to All on Wed Nov 16 2016 04:35 am

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusin syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com


    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    Are you using it for any projects currently?

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  • From Chris@DMINE to Poindexter Fortran on Wednesday, November 23, 2016 23:28:30
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Vk3jed on Thu Nov 17 2016 02:01 pm

    Embarcadero now owns TP and they have TP 5.5 available for free - http://cc.embarcadero.com/Free.aspx?id=26015



    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.

    For those interested, they were offering the Delphi Starter Edition for free. It was still being offered last time I saw. I don't get on Windows much these days, but I downloaded it anyway, because what the hell, that's a great deal. I believe the normal cost is in the vicinity of $200 (less if you are upgrading).


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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Chris on Thursday, November 24, 2016 21:11:00
    Chris wrote to Darkages <=-

    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't
    say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about
    as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just
    never got far with it unfortunately.

    I used to enjoy writing Pascal code when I was in university. Pity I can't easily read any of my old floppies (anyone have a 5.25" drive? ;) ).

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like
    languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write some more modern Pascal code. :)


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  • From Sampsa@B4BBS to Vk3jed on Thursday, November 24, 2016 16:54:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Chris <=-

    @VIA: VERT/FREEWAY
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    Chris wrote to Darkages <=-

    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't
    say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about
    as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just
    never got far with it unfortunately.

    I used to enjoy writing Pascal code when I was in university. Pity I can't easily read any of my old floppies (anyone have a 5.25" drive? ;)
    ).

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like
    languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal
    back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for
    it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed
    to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and
    Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).


    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save
    a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    Like 50%+ of that was just Pascal function/procedure wrappers around
    inline Intel 8086 assembler.

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    Sampsa


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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Chris on Thursday, November 24, 2016 20:27:36
    On 2016-11-24 06:25 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Darkages to All on Wed Nov 16 2016 04:35 am

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusin
    syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com


    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've
    done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one
    of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good
    (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit
    of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like languages. But nothing Earth
    shattering.

    Are you using it for any projects currently?

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    I ahd problems with where I could use end and not. In certain scenarois.

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Chris on Thursday, November 24, 2016 20:28:13
    On 2016-11-24 06:25 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Darkages to All on Wed Nov 16 2016 04:35 am

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusin
    syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com


    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've
    done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one
    of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good
    (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit
    of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like languages. But nothing Earth
    shattering.

    Are you using it for any projects currently?

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    Not using it for any projects. I am thinking of checking out Modula 3
    oneday (I have some docs. on it printed out, stored in my paper archive)

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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Sampsa on Friday, November 25, 2016 07:07:00
    Sampsa wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big
    deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    Well, interesting bit of history, but can you be more specific, and what do you like in a language?

    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    I'm guessing that would be a fairly standard exercise for a CS student in their latter years.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but
    good luck doing anything with it).

    Modula-2 I have heard of, but not Oberon.


    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save
    a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    No, I don't, actually. But yes, I would agree somewhat unportable. However, I once did manage to port a Morse practice program that I wrote from the DOS version of TP to CP/M. Most of the code went straight over. There were two main parts that needed some inline Z80 assembler that were machine specific for the target machine. They were the tone generation and the character timing loops. The CP/M version needed special functions and procedures written in inline assembler (which I got a friend to do, as it was his Microbee that I was porting the program to) to simulate the built instructions of the DOS version. We did release both the DOS and CP/M versions (with porting instructions for other CP/M machines) to the public domain around 25 years ago, but I haven't seen a trace of it since.

    Like 50%+ of that was just Pascal function/procedure wrappers around inline Intel 8086 assembler.

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in
    the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just
    die a dignified death now.

    Well, it did what I wanted at the time. :)

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    LOL.
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  • From Sampsa@B4BBS to Vk3jed on Friday, November 25, 2016 02:18:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Sampsa <=-


    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big
    deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    Well, interesting bit of history, but can you be more specific, and
    what do you like in a language?

    Well, I like most "modern" languages but at the moment my favourite is definitely Python: It's VERY easy to pick up but scales to HUGE apps
    if you want it, it's hard to state all the reasons WHY I like it but I
    guess some of the main ones would be:

    - Nice, clean syntax (Python almost reads like pseudo-code)

    - Multi-paradigm (You can write basically imperitative code that
    looks like C/Pascal, heavily OOP-style code a la Java or even
    almost functional programming style stuff [of which I'm not a
    big fan])

    - Large, modular and uniform standard library (Python has more or
    less everything you can think of in the basic API, but you don't
    HAVE to know all of it to work with the language)

    - Popularity. Sounds stupid, but if an otherwise awesome language
    is used by 500 devs world-wide, you're not going to get a lot of
    new stuff up on GitHub to use. For example I think there are THREE
    different FTN processing libraries (admittedly all flawed) for
    Python.




    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    I'm guessing that would be a fairly standard exercise for a CS student
    in their latter years.

    Yeah, definitely, everyone who took a "real" CS course would have taken one
    on compilers and the one a lot people end up implementing is Pascal - because it's just so damn easy to implemnet a Pascal compiler.

    And yeah, it was satisfying to see your for loop turn into a bunch of LOADs, SAVEs and JUMPs. But I wouldn't have wanted to write that compiler in
    Pascal :)



    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but
    good luck doing anything with it).

    Modula-2 I have heard of, but not Oberon.

    Oberon is quite cool - it's both a programming language and a whole desktop
    UI, sort of like SmallTalk. I think it still boots in VMware..Have a look:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)




    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save
    a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    No, I don't, actually. But yes, I would agree somewhat unportable.

    SWAG was awesome, you could find a TP unit in there to do basically
    ANYTHING (it was like the CPAN [perl] or pip/distutils [Python] for TP)

    Also, somewhat is somewhat of an understatement :)



    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in
    the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just
    die a dignified death now.

    Well, it did what I wanted at the time. :)

    Same here. But once I learned C I dropped it entirely and then in 1996
    moved on to Java.

    Now I code exclusively in Python (unless I have to do something weird
    and platform specific, then I write a small C library and import it
    into my Python app using ctypes).

    Sampsa


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  • From Christopher Perrault to Vk3jed on Thursday, November 24, 2016 23:01:56
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Vk3jed to Chris on Thu Nov 24 2016 09:11 pm

    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write some more modern Pascal code. :)

    You're not the only one. I'd love to do up a project in FPC. Unfortunately I've been focused on admin related stuff as of late and get little time to do any coding at all (I still need to finish learning Python).

    Pascal is further down the list, but one of these days...
  • From Christopher Perrault to Sampsa on Thursday, November 24, 2016 23:15:29
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Sampsa to Vk3jed on Thu Nov 24 2016 04:54 pm

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.
    In my programming courses I was using Java and C++, but I came along well after Pascal stopped being used in most colleges. I think it was still being taught in some places at the time,but it was being phased out. We never got around to building compilers (what the hell, I went to a community college).
    But anyway, I'd always assumed it was because Pascal syntax was somewhat close to pseudocode which made it more accessible to new students. Not sure how true that was, but I thought I read it somewhere.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and
    Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).


    I do remember reading about Modula and Oberon. If I'm remembering correctly Wirth created these because Pascal was lacking a lot of features at the time (specifically OO implementation), and these were written to kind of flesh out Pascal. I know they didn't get far in terms of adoption, but I am curious how many people might still be using them today.

    I never did use it (I think I tried installing one of them at one point and failed miserably) so can't really speak to the quality of the languages. Are they usable today? Did adding objects to Pascal make them obsolete, or did their differences go beyond that?

    Also wasn't Oberon more than a language and also something of an operating environment (sort of like a built in IDE)?
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Sampsa on Friday, November 25, 2016 20:44:00
    Sampsa wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Well, I like most "modern" languages but at the moment my favourite is definitely Python: It's VERY easy to pick up but scales to HUGE apps
    if you want it, it's hard to state all the reasons WHY I like it but I guess some of the main ones would be:

    I've heard a lot of good things about Python, haven't got round to looking closely myself yet. From your description, there are a lot of good reasons to give it a go, as well as Python being supported by Mystic. :)

    Yeah, definitely, everyone who took a "real" CS course would have taken one on compilers and the one a lot people end up implementing is Pascal
    - because it's just so damn easy to implemnet a Pascal compiler.

    I see. :-)

    And yeah, it was satisfying to see your for loop turn into a bunch of LOADs, SAVEs and JUMPs. But I wouldn't have wanted to write that
    compiler in Pascal :)

    ;)

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but
    good luck doing anything with it).

    Modula-2 I have heard of, but not Oberon.

    Oberon is quite cool - it's both a programming language and a whole desktop UI, sort of like SmallTalk. I think it still boots in
    VMware..Have a look:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)

    Ahh, OK

    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save
    a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    No, I don't, actually. But yes, I would agree somewhat unportable.

    SWAG was awesome, you could find a TP unit in there to do basically ANYTHING (it was like the CPAN [perl] or pip/distutils [Python] for TP)

    Ahh, I see. Most of my TP coding took place under TP3.x, before units came along. :)

    Also, somewhat is somewhat of an understatement :)

    Well, it did what I wanted at the time. :)

    Same here. But once I learned C I dropped it entirely and then in 1996 moved on to Java.

    Yeah, I never got to learn enough C for it to be useful.

    Now I code exclusively in Python (unless I have to do something weird
    and platform specific, then I write a small C library and import it
    into my Python app using ctypes).

    I'll have to take a look at Python. :)



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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Christopher Perrault on Friday, November 25, 2016 20:45:00
    Christopher Perrault wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    You're not the only one. I'd love to do up a project in FPC.
    Unfortunately I've been focused on admin related stuff as of late and
    get little time to do any coding at all (I still need to finish
    learning Python).

    Pascal is further down the list, but one of these days...

    And Python is on my list of things to do. :)


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  • From Sampsa@B4BBS to Vk3jed on Friday, November 25, 2016 16:46:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Sampsa <=-

    SWAG was awesome, you could find a TP unit in there to do basically ANYTHING (it was like the CPAN [perl] or pip/distutils [Python] for TP)

    Ahh, I see. Most of my TP coding took place under TP3.x, before units came along. :)

    The "units" thing was part of the reason Wirth develped Modula-2 -
    "separate compilation" (i.e. just compiling the bits you've change and then linking all the object code) was a Big Deal back when 300 people would share
    a single VAX, it saved a LOT of CPU of time.

    I remember working on a crazy development system at Nokia (the Networks section, not mobile phones) section back in the mid-90s:

    You'd develop your code in TNSDL (a subset of SDL, this graphical
    flowcharting thing that you could weirdly enough write in text) and C, submitting the compilation job (a VMS DCL shell script) to a queue on the central VAX cluster, and then go for a 3 hour break.

    After 3 hours or so, you'd either get a compile error (missing semi-colon?
    Fix it and recompile for 3 hours again lol) or a binary blob.

    You'd then download said binary blob, write it to a floppy disk, take it
    to THE ACTUAL FAKE DX200 PHONE EXCHANGE in the basement, type some obscure commands at the console and watch a whole room full of blinking lights and electrical relays reboot itself. It was quite spectacular.

    The code would then usually run for roughly 3 milliseconds, crash, print
    out a hex dump of <something>, that you'd take to the gurus upstairs to decipher.

    The next morning they'd tell you to change line X of file Y.

    24 hour+ code + compile + test cycle. With my own office (door and everything):

    BEST JOB EVER!


    Yeah, I never got to learn enough C for it to be useful.

    Well unless you're writing freaking device drivers or code for a spacecraft then it's hard to get C to do useful things in any reasonable amount of
    time (see example above).

    And even for the spacecraft I'd probably use Ada since with C you'd probably end up dereferencing some pointer wrong and your $30 billion space craft now crashes into the Sun ;P


    Now I code exclusively in Python (unless I have to do something weird
    and platform specific, then I write a small C library and import it
    into my Python app using ctypes).

    I'll have to take a look at Python. :)

    Yup, please do. I'm still on version 2.7 (the jump to v3 changes the syntax
    and like all developers [well, I'm more or a dilettante nowadays than a
    real dev] are lazy, so I haven't migrated yet).

    Their own tutorial is pretty decent, picked up the language in like a
    week from it: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/

    Sampsa

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Vk3jed on Friday, November 25, 2016 17:36:28
    On 2016-11-24 01:11 PM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Chris wrote to Darkages <=-

    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    I used to enjoy writing Pascal code when I was in university. Pity I can't easily read any of my old floppies (anyone have a 5.25" drive? ;) ).

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like
    languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write some more modern
    Pascal code. :)


    ... Ethernet (n): Something used to catch the etherbunny.
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    That's cool to hear. Pascal is a great language.

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Sampsa on Friday, November 25, 2016 17:37:22
    On 2016-11-24 06:54 PM, Sampsa wrote:
    Vk3jed wrote to Chris <=-

    @VIA: VERT/FREEWAY
    @MSGID: <5836BEBC.133.dove-program@freeway.apana.org.au>
    @REPLY: <58366BAA.2231.dove-prg@dmine.net>
    @TZ: 1258
    Chris wrote to Darkages <=-

    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    I used to enjoy writing Pascal code when I was in university. Pity I can't easily read any of my old floppies (anyone have a 5.25" drive? ;) ).

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like
    languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).


    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    Like 50%+ of that was just Pascal function/procedure wrappers around
    inline Intel 8086 assembler.

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    Sampsa


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    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language
    designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, >basically.

    Well, that's still cool.

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Sampsa on Friday, November 25, 2016 17:38:33
    On 2016-11-24 06:54 PM, Sampsa wrote:
    Vk3jed wrote to Chris <=-

    @VIA: VERT/FREEWAY
    @MSGID: <5836BEBC.133.dove-program@freeway.apana.org.au>
    @REPLY: <58366BAA.2231.dove-prg@dmine.net>
    @TZ: 1258
    Chris wrote to Darkages <=-

    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    I used to enjoy writing Pascal code when I was in university. Pity I can't easily read any of my old floppies (anyone have a 5.25" drive? ;) ).

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like
    languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).


    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    Like 50%+ of that was just Pascal function/procedure wrappers around
    inline Intel 8086 assembler.

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    Sampsa


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    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol .

    That's not nice.

    He still contributed to CS. And why wish death on anyone like him?

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Vk3jed on Friday, November 25, 2016 17:40:00
    On 2016-11-24 11:07 PM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Sampsa wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    Well, interesting bit of history, but can you be more specific, and what do you
    like in a language?

    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    I'm guessing that would be a fairly standard exercise for a CS student in their
    latter years.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).

    Modula-2 I have heard of, but not Oberon.


    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    No, I don't, actually. But yes, I would agree somewhat unportable. However, I
    once did manage to port a Morse practice program that I wrote from the DOS version of TP to CP/M. Most of the code went straight over. There were two main parts that needed some inline Z80 assembler that were machine specific for
    the target machine. They were the tone generation and the character timing loops. The CP/M version needed special functions and procedures written in inline assembler (which I got a friend to do, as it was his Microbee that I was
    porting the program to) to simulate the built instructions of the DOS version.
    We did release both the DOS and CP/M versions (with porting instructions for other CP/M machines) to the public domain around 25 years ago, but I haven't seen a trace of it since.

    Like 50%+ of that was just Pascal function/procedure wrappers around inline Intel 8086 assembler.

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in
    the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    Well, it did what I wanted at the time. :)

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    LOL.
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    Inline assembler? Is that when you include assembly code within the
    Pascal program (which I am aware you can do)

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Sampsa on Friday, November 25, 2016 17:42:34
    On 2016-11-25 04:18 AM, Sampsa wrote:
    Vk3jed wrote to Sampsa <=-


    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    Well, interesting bit of history, but can you be more specific, and
    what do you like in a language?

    Well, I like most "modern" languages but at the moment my favourite is definitely Python: It's VERY easy to pick up but scales to HUGE apps
    if you want it, it's hard to state all the reasons WHY I like it but I
    guess some of the main ones would be:

    - Nice, clean syntax (Python almost reads like pseudo-code)

    - Multi-paradigm (You can write basically imperitative code that
    looks like C/Pascal, heavily OOP-style code a la Java or even
    almost functional programming style stuff [of which I'm not a
    big fan])

    - Large, modular and uniform standard library (Python has more or
    less everything you can think of in the basic API, but you don't
    HAVE to know all of it to work with the language)

    - Popularity. Sounds stupid, but if an otherwise awesome language
    is used by 500 devs world-wide, you're not going to get a lot of
    new stuff up on GitHub to use. For example I think there are THREE
    different FTN processing libraries (admittedly all flawed) for
    Python.




    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    I'm guessing that would be a fairly standard exercise for a CS student in their latter years.

    Yeah, definitely, everyone who took a "real" CS course would have taken one on compilers and the one a lot people end up implementing is Pascal - because it's just so damn easy to implemnet a Pascal compiler.

    And yeah, it was satisfying to see your for loop turn into a bunch of LOADs, SAVEs and JUMPs. But I wouldn't have wanted to write that compiler in
    Pascal :)



    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).

    Modula-2 I have heard of, but not Oberon.

    Oberon is quite cool - it's both a programming language and a whole desktop UI, sort of like SmallTalk. I think it still boots in VMware..Have a look:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)




    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    No, I don't, actually. But yes, I would agree somewhat unportable.

    SWAG was awesome, you could find a TP unit in there to do basically
    ANYTHING (it was like the CPAN [perl] or pip/distutils [Python] for TP)

    Also, somewhat is somewhat of an understatement :)



    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in
    the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    Well, it did what I wanted at the time. :)

    Same here. But once I learned C I dropped it entirely and then in 1996
    moved on to Java.

    Now I code exclusively in Python (unless I have to do something weird
    and platform specific, then I write a small C library and import it
    into my Python app using ctypes).

    Sampsa


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    Oberon actually sounds interesting.

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Christopher Perrault on Friday, November 25, 2016 17:44:20
    On 2016-11-25 09:01 AM, Christopher Perrault wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Vk3jed to Chris on Thu Nov 24 2016 09:11 pm

    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write some more
    modern Pascal code. :)

    You're not the only one. I'd love to do up a project in FPC. Unfortunately I've
    been focused on admin related stuff as of late and get little time to do any coding at all (I still need to finish learning Python).

    Pascal is further down the list, but one of these days...

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Sampsa on Friday, November 25, 2016 17:55:41
    On 2016-11-25 06:46 PM, Sampsa wrote:
    binary blob
    What's a binary blob?

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  • From Chris@DMINE to Deavmi on Friday, November 25, 2016 18:43:01
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Sampsa on Fri Nov 25 2016 05:38 pm

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    Sampsa


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    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol .

    That's not nice.

    He still contributed to CS. And why wish death on anyone like him?


    I think you may have misread that. I don't think he was wishing death on Niklaus Wirth. He was wishing death on Pascal and saying that Wirth probably wishes it were dead too.

    I think...

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  • From Chris@DMINE to Deavmi on Friday, November 25, 2016 18:45:32
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Vk3jed on Fri Nov 25 2016 05:40 pm

    Inline assembler? Is that when you include assembly code within the
    Pascal program (which I am aware you can do)


    Yes. I remember the OS-9 Pascal compilor having this option as well as the C compiler. I'm assuming most implementations probably have that option, but I doubt it get's uses as much today with today's technology.
    Back in the 8-bit days it made more sense to write the more intensive routines in ASM.


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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Chris on Saturday, November 26, 2016 11:20:11
    On 2016-11-26 01:45 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Vk3jed on Fri Nov 25 2016 05:40 pm

    Inline assembler? Is that when you include assembly code within the
    Pascal program (which I am aware you can do)


    Yes. I remember the OS-9 Pascal compilor having this option as well as the C compiler. I'm assuming most implementations probably have that option, but I doubt it get's uses as much today with today's technology.
    Back in the 8-bit days it made more sense to write the more intensive routines
    in ASM.


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    To make sure that they executed exactly what you wanted? Rather than the doings of abstract Pascal code which you don't know how it will do the task.

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Chris on Saturday, November 26, 2016 11:20:44
    On 2016-11-26 01:43 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Sampsa on Fri Nov 25 2016 05:38 pm

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    Sampsa


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    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol .

    That's not nice.

    He still contributed to CS. And why wish death on anyone like him?


    I think you may have misread that. I don't think he was wishing death on Niklaus Wirth. He was wishing death on Pascal and saying that Wirth probably wishes it were dead too.

    I think...

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    Oh okay. I guess you can wish death on something if it ain't good. But
    don't forget it atleast. :)

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  • From Sampsa@B4BBS to Deavmi on Saturday, November 26, 2016 15:51:00
    Deavmi wrote to Sampsa <=-

    binary blob
    What's a binary blob?

    Basically in this context, executable machine code.

    .COM files on DOS are basically just binary blobs, a bunch of binary
    machine code that gets loaded into a fixed address in memory and DOS
    then jumps to that address to execute a program.

    .EXE files have a little preamble that says how to set up the code/data segments etc and where to jump to start the program.

    Most modern exectuable format (ELF etc, whatever Windows uses etc) are
    like .EXE files - little structured preamble followed by the code etc.

    But I also use it to mean things like writing Pascal records out straight
    to disk - which is really stupid nowadays, use some kind of standard format like JSON etc, don't just dump a data structure to disk as is.

    OK, if you're dealing with like HUGE amounts of records then fine, I can understand not wanting to parse the stuff but at that point you should
    probably be using some kind of database system anyway.

    Sampsa

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Sampsa on Sunday, November 27, 2016 07:28:15
    On 2016-11-26 05:51 PM, Sampsa wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Sampsa <=-

    binary blob
    What's a binary blob?

    Basically in this context, executable machine code.

    .COM files on DOS are basically just binary blobs, a bunch of binary
    machine code that gets loaded into a fixed address in memory and DOS
    then jumps to that address to execute a program.

    .EXE files have a little preamble that says how to set up the code/data segments etc and where to jump to start the program.

    Most modern exectuable format (ELF etc, whatever Windows uses etc) are
    like .EXE files - little structured preamble followed by the code etc.

    But I also use it to mean things like writing Pascal records out straight
    to disk - which is really stupid nowadays, use some kind of standard format like JSON etc, don't just dump a data structure to disk as is.

    OK, if you're dealing with like HUGE amounts of records then fine, I can understand not wanting to parse the stuff but at that point you should probably be using some kind of database system anyway.

    Sampsa

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    Thanks for the info.

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  • From Chris@DMINE to Deavmi on Sunday, November 27, 2016 23:11:50
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Sat Nov 26 2016 11:20 am

    To make sure that they executed exactly what you wanted? Rather than the doings of abstract Pascal code which you don't know how it will do the task.

    I don't have enought experience with it to know. The main reason I've heard for people using inline asm, whether in c or pascal, was performance based. I suppose there are other reasons as you mentioned, I've just never heard them mentioned before.

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  • From Chris@DMINE to Deavmi on Sunday, November 27, 2016 23:14:22
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Sat Nov 26 2016 11:20 am

    Oh okay. I guess you can wish death on something if it ain't good. But
    don't forget it atleast. :)

    True that. I try not to wish death on anyone (I have about a 90% success rate there).

    But I wish death on products and trends all the time lol.

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Chris on Monday, November 28, 2016 19:43:08
    On 2016-11-28 06:14 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Sat Nov 26 2016 11:20 am

    Oh okay. I guess you can wish death on something if it ain't good. But don't forget it atleast. :)

    True that. I try not to wish death on anyone (I have about a 90% success rate
    there).

    But I wish death on products and trends all the time lol.

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    Well for me, if something is a fad, it needs no wishing - it will go
    away but as for the way technology is going like with IoT - it ain't a
    fad and I do want it to go away.

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Chris on Monday, November 28, 2016 19:44:22
    On 2016-11-28 06:11 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Sat Nov 26 2016 11:20 am

    To make sure that they executed exactly what you wanted? Rather than the doings of abstract Pascal code which you don't know how it will do the task.

    I don't have enought experience with it to know. The main reason I've heard for people using inline asm, whether in c or pascal, was performance based. I suppose there are other reasons as you mentioned, I've just never heard them mentioned before.

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    Yeah, I think just the fine grained access to specific instructions
    allow for you to write more specifically what must be done and how
    whereas C could compile to code that does multiple checks on things
    before it executes the specific thing you wanted (however with only C
    you cannot control this drawn-out process).

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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Deavmi on Monday, November 28, 2016 19:44:32
    On 2016-11-28 07:44 PM, Deavmi wrote:
    On 2016-11-28 06:11 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Sat Nov 26 2016 11:20 am

    To make sure that they executed exactly what you wanted? Rather
    than the
    doings of abstract Pascal code which you don't know how it will do
    the task.

    I don't have enought experience with it to know. The main reason I've
    heard
    for people using inline asm, whether in c or pascal, was performance
    based. I
    suppose there are other reasons as you mentioned, I've just never
    heard them
    mentioned before.

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    Yeah, I think just the fine grained access to specific instructions
    allow for you to write more specifically what must be done and how
    whereas C could compile to code that does multiple checks on things
    before it executes the specific thing you wanted (however with only C
    you cannot control this drawn-out process).
    "drawn out"

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  • From Mro@BBSESINF to Deavmi on Monday, November 28, 2016 22:10:04
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Mon Nov 28 2016 07:43 pm

    Well for me, if something is a fad, it needs no wishing - it will go
    away but as for the way technology is going like with IoT - it ain't a
    fad and I do want it to go away.



    yeah, but you know fads always come back. sometimes they are in disguise but still, they come back. freaking bell bottoms.
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  • From Deavmi@EWBBS to Mro on Tuesday, November 29, 2016 18:09:33
    On 2016-11-29 06:10 AM, Mro wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Mon Nov 28 2016 07:43 pm

    Well for me, if something is a fad, it needs no wishing - it will go
    away but as for the way technology is going like with IoT - it ain't a
    fad and I do want it to go away.



    yeah, but you know fads always come back. sometimes they are in disguise but still, they come back. freaking bell bottoms.
    ---
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    I guess so. But how would IoT re-appear in disguise or is it the bigger picture of privacy issues coming as fads, like first cloud computing,
    then IoT?

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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 16:08:00
    Deavmi wrote to Mro <=-

    I guess so. But how would IoT re-appear in disguise or is it the bigger picture of privacy issues coming as fads, like first cloud computing,
    then IoT?

    Well, the IoT manufacturers are repeating the mistakes of others before them, like wifi router manufacturers, who for a long time supplied their gear with a default password and no wifi security. Before mobile Internet became affordable, it was a common ploy to drive around with a copy of Netstumbler until you found an open network (didn't take long in those days!). If you were courteous, you'd just download your email and leave, if not, maybe surf the web or leech a few files. Of course, some people did put these open networks to more nefarious uses.

    Today, it's a lot less common to see an unsecured wifi AP (unless it's a public hotspot), and mobile Internet is cheap enough anyway, so it's not worth the hassle.

    later came the various attacks on home routers, by accessing them using their default password, and then messing with the configuration (e.g. redirecting DNS to a bogus server that you control, so you can serve up malware, etc).

    Router manufacturers and ISPs eventually woke up, and the routers came with wifi security turned on and either a unique password or they forced one to choose a new password on first login. Some ISPs even configured the router for the customer, before shipping it.

    Now we come to IoT. Here we have a new generation of insecure devices repeating the same mistakes (such as well known default passwords), and now we have malware targetting these devices as easy recruits for a botnet.

    *sigh*
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  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Darkages on Sunday, March 26, 2017 10:52:58
    I have actually come to grips with the syntax now and I love the way you type the syntax :).

    +==========+

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

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    +==========+

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  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Darkages on Sunday, March 26, 2017 11:58:00
    I will also be sticking with Pascal as I like it a lot and FPC exists.

    +==========+

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    Email: deavmi@ewbbs.synchro.net; deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net

    +==========+

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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Monday, March 27, 2017 08:21:00
    Deavmi wrote to Darkages <=-

    I have actually come to grips with the syntax now and I love the way
    you type the syntax :).

    I've always like Pascal syntax. Pascal is the language I've done the most with, so I do have a soft spot for it.


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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Monday, March 27, 2017 08:22:00
    Deavmi wrote to Darkages <=-

    I will also be sticking with Pascal as I like it a lot and FPC exists.

    I'm also looking at relearning Pascal. Even looking at code snippets is bringing back memories, so it will be a lot less of a (re) learning curve than learning C or another language from near scratch.


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  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Vk3jed on Monday, March 27, 2017 04:18:13
    I'm also looking at relearning Pascal. Even looking at code snippets is bringing back memories, so it will be a lot less of a (re) learning curve than learning C or another language from near scratch.

    ... Why get even, when you can get odd?
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    I was busy reading the documentation on Free Pascal's Pascal and I shall return to it shortly.

    +==========+

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

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    +==========+

    ---
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  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Vk3jed on Monday, March 27, 2017 04:18:59
    I'm also looking at relearning Pascal. Even looking at code snippets is bringing back memories, so it will be a lot less of a (re) learning curve than learning C or another language from near scratch.

    ... Why get even, when you can get odd?
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    Γûá Synchronet Γûá Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.



    If I have any questions I will come to you :).

    +==========+

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    Email: deavmi@ewbbs.synchro.net; deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net

    +==========+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Vk3jed on Monday, March 27, 2017 14:04:41
    On 2017-03-27 12:21 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Darkages <=-

    I have actually come to grips with the syntax now and I love the way
    you type the syntax :).

    I've always like Pascal syntax. Pascal is the language I've done the most with, so I do have a soft spot for it.


    ... Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

    I have a soft spot for it even though I never did it back in the day (lol).

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Poindexter Fortran@REALITY to Deavmi on Monday, March 27, 2017 09:14:20
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Vk3jed on Mon Mar 27 2017 02:04 pm

    I've always like Pascal syntax. Pascal is the language I've done the
    most with, so I do have a soft spot for it.

    I have a soft spot for it even though I never did it back in the day (lol).

    Anyone for FORTRAN? :)

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Ennev@MTLGEEK to Poindexter Fortran on Monday, March 27, 2017 18:07:32

    Anyone for FORTRAN? :)

    Considered it in the early 80's then I saw Pascal.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 08:39:00
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I was busy reading the documentation on Free Pascal's Pascal and I
    shall return to it shortly.

    Yeah, that's on my winter to do list, which is getting closer, with the last week of the summer track season upon me. :)


    ... We print the news WE think you need to be told.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 08:40:00
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    If I have any questions I will come to you :).

    Well, it's going to take a little while to get off the ground, though I did get "Hello World" working. LOL


    ... Catlapse: The cat's time between removal from a lap and awakening
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 08:41:00
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I have a soft spot for it even though I never did it back in the day (lol).

    Haha OK, cool. Yeah, I actually did do quite a lot of Pascal back in the day. :)


    ... My brain has never had a firm grip on where my feet are.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Poindexter Fortran on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 08:49:00
    Poindexter Fortran wrote to Deavmi <=-

    I have a soft spot for it even though I never did it back in the day
    lol).

    Anyone for FORTRAN? :)

    I did a little FORTRAN at university. Took a bit of getting used to, but was an excellent language for mathematical work. Even had a native type for complex numbers (very handy for electronic engineering).


    ... I'm not nearly as think as you confused I am.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Vk3jed on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 10:17:02
    On 2017-03-28 12:39 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I was busy reading the documentation on Free Pascal's Pascal and I
    shall return to it shortly.

    Yeah, that's on my winter to do list, which is getting closer, with the last week of the summer track season upon me. :)


    ... We print the news WE think you need to be told.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

    Awesome to hear.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Vk3jed on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 10:17:47
    On 2017-03-28 12:40 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    If I have any questions I will come to you :).

    Well, it's going to take a little while to get off the ground, though I did get
    "Hello World" working. LOL


    ... Catlapse: The cat's time between removal from a lap and awakening
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.



    program hello;

    begin
    writeln('Hello world');
    end.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Vk3jed on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 10:17:58
    On 2017-03-28 12:40 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    If I have any questions I will come to you :).

    Well, it's going to take a little while to get off the ground, though I did get
    "Hello World" working. LOL


    ... Catlapse: The cat's time between removal from a lap and awakening
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

    I just love Pascal's syntax. So frikken sexy.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Poindexter Fortran on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 10:18:29
    On 2017-03-27 06:14 PM, Poindexter Fortran wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Vk3jed on Mon Mar 27 2017 02:04 pm

    I've always like Pascal syntax. Pascal is the language I've done the
    most with, so I do have a soft spot for it.

    I have a soft spot for it even though I never did it back in the day (lol).

    Anyone for FORTRAN? :)

    ---
    � Synchronet � realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

    My grandmother did Fortran, COBOLand Pascal to name a few.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Thursday, March 30, 2017 19:36:00
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yeah, that's on my winter to do list, which is getting closer, with the last week of the summer track season upon me. :)



    Awesome to hear.

    Yeah, should be fun. :)


    ... Transporter room, beam that Tagline up immediately!
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Thursday, March 30, 2017 19:37:00
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    program hello;

    begin
    writeln('Hello world');
    end.

    I had to add

    Uses Crt;

    at the top, it needs the CRT unit to be able to write to the console screen..
    D


    ... The one question you've always wanted clarified. What did she say?
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Thursday, March 30, 2017 19:38:00
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-


    I just love Pascal's syntax. So frikken sexy.

    I find it quite neat, for the most part.


    ... A BAND AID?!?! I'm a doctor not a... Oh yeah...
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Vk3jed on Thursday, March 30, 2017 14:57:44
    On 2017-03-30 11:37 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    program hello;

    begin
    writeln('Hello world');
    end.

    I had to add

    Uses Crt;

    at the top, it needs the CRT unit to be able to write to the console screen.. D


    ... The one question you've always wanted clarified. What did she say?
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

    FPC includes that module by default.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Vk3jed on Thursday, March 30, 2017 14:58:00
    On 2017-03-30 11:38 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-


    I just love Pascal's syntax. So frikken sexy.

    I find it quite neat, for the most part.


    ... A BAND AID?!?! I'm a doctor not a... Oh yeah...
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

    Yeah, it is.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Ennev@MTLGEEK to Vk3jed on Thursday, March 30, 2017 12:14:53
    I find it quite neat, for the most part.

    Cleaner to read than a bunch of {} %#%$ () () ;

    Maybe it look less compact, but a code is brisk and small no because you typed it compactly.

    Remember demonstrating that years ago at a job writing the same piece of code in Turbo Pascal and in Microsoft C.

    We had a decompiler so we could see what both code looked like and at that level it was practically indistinguishable.

    And when you use Delphi the difference in the size of a .exe was dramatic.

    Opening a windows with "hello world" with a button to close was like 15kb. where the same in c# was like 250kb because of all the stuff it was
    bundling in it and that with turning the debug mode at off in both cases.

    So at the end of the day, it's funnier to support code in Pascal than C or Java. You can of course type less compact source code in c or java but it's up to the developer, when pascal forces you.

    while (number > 0)
    {
    factorial *= number;
    --number;
    }

    or

    while (nu > 0) {fa *= nu;--nu;}

    it will both do the same thing, but one is so much nicer to read that the other.

    and once compiled that will end up being the same code executing in the
    same amount of time.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Ennev on Thursday, March 30, 2017 13:36:16
    I like C's syntax. It's good and easier to type (physically with a keyboard - not talking about the type system).

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Ennev@MTLGEEK to Deavmi on Thursday, March 30, 2017 15:12:59
    I like C's syntax. It's good and easier to type (physically with a
    keyboard
    - not talking about the type system).

    But so messy :-D

    --------------------------
    about me ? : q.ennev.com/a

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Friday, March 31, 2017 06:33:00
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-
    I had to add

    Uses Crt;

    at the top, it needs the CRT unit to be able to write to the console
    creen..
    D


    FPC includes that module by default.

    I got an error until I referenced the unit, then it compiled and ran fine. :)


    ... No Virus Found. AARRGGHH!! I've got the No Virus!!
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Ennev on Friday, March 31, 2017 06:51:00
    Ennev wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I find it quite neat, for the most part.

    Cleaner to read than a bunch of {} %#%$ () () ;

    Indeed! :)

    Maybe it look less compact, but a code is brisk and small no because
    you typed it compactly.

    Remember demonstrating that years ago at a job writing the same piece
    of code in Turbo Pascal and in Microsoft C.

    We had a decompiler so we could see what both code looked like and at
    that level it was practically indistinguishable.

    Interesting. :)

    And when you use Delphi the difference in the size of a .exe was
    dramatic.

    Yeah, some compilers were shockers back then for including bloat into their .exe files.

    So at the end of the day, it's funnier to support code in Pascal than C
    or Java. You can of course type less compact source code in c or java
    but it's up to the developer, when pascal forces you.

    I always found Pascal very readable, while C varied.

    while (number > 0)
    {
    factorial *= number;
    --number;
    }

    or

    while (nu > 0) {fa *= nu;--nu;}

    I know which I find more readable! :)

    it will both do the same thing, but one is so much nicer to read that
    the other.

    and once compiled that will end up being the same code executing in the same amount of time.

    Yep, something that's easy to support and creates efficient binary code is a good thing. :)


    ... When two Englishmen meet their first talk is of the weather.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Ennev on Thursday, March 30, 2017 22:25:48
    On 2017-03-30 06:14 PM, Ennev wrote:
    I find it quite neat, for the most part.

    Cleaner to read than a bunch of {} %#%$ () () ;

    Maybe it look less compact, but a code is brisk and small no because you typed
    it compactly.

    Remember demonstrating that years ago at a job writing the same piece of code in Turbo Pascal and in Microsoft C.

    We had a decompiler so we could see what both code looked like and at that level it was practically indistinguishable.

    And when you use Delphi the difference in the size of a .exe was dramatic.

    Opening a windows with "hello world" with a button to close was like 15kb. where the same in c# was like 250kb because of all the stuff it was
    bundling in it and that with turning the debug mode at off in both cases.

    So at the end of the day, it's funnier to support code in Pascal than C or Java. You can of course type less compact source code in c or java but it's up
    to the developer, when pascal forces you.

    while (number > 0)
    {
    factorial *= number;
    --number;
    }

    or

    while (nu > 0) {fa *= nu;--nu;}

    it will both do the same thing, but one is so much nicer to read that the other.

    and once compiled that will end up being the same code executing in the
    same amount of time.

    ---
    � Synchronet � MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

    and once compiled that will end up being the same code executing in the
    same amount of time.

    Depends if the compiler is efficient. It could dd instructions that are redundant for fun. Lol.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Ennev on Thursday, March 30, 2017 22:25:56
    On 2017-03-30 06:14 PM, Ennev wrote:
    I find it quite neat, for the most part.

    Cleaner to read than a bunch of {} %#%$ () () ;

    Maybe it look less compact, but a code is brisk and small no because you typed
    it compactly.

    Remember demonstrating that years ago at a job writing the same piece of code in Turbo Pascal and in Microsoft C.

    We had a decompiler so we could see what both code looked like and at that level it was practically indistinguishable.

    And when you use Delphi the difference in the size of a .exe was dramatic.

    Opening a windows with "hello world" with a button to close was like 15kb. where the same in c# was like 250kb because of all the stuff it was
    bundling in it and that with turning the debug mode at off in both cases.

    So at the end of the day, it's funnier to support code in Pascal than C or Java. You can of course type less compact source code in c or java but it's up
    to the developer, when pascal forces you.

    while (number > 0)
    {
    factorial *= number;
    --number;
    }

    or

    while (nu > 0) {fa *= nu;--nu;}

    it will both do the same thing, but one is so much nicer to read that the other.

    and once compiled that will end up being the same code executing in the
    same amount of time.

    ---
    � Synchronet � MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

    * dd = "add"

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Ennev on Thursday, March 30, 2017 22:26:48
    On 2017-03-30 09:12 PM, Ennev wrote:
    I like C's syntax. It's good and easier to type (physically with a
    keyboard
    - not talking about the type system).

    But so messy :-D

    --------------------------
    about me ? : q.ennev.com/a

    ---
    � Synchronet � MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

    Guess so but when you need to quickly write some code and test it out it
    beats things like Pascal. Also it ain't that messy - I like it quite a
    lot. It isn't, let's say, as elegant as Pascal - I can tell you that.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Ennev on Thursday, March 30, 2017 22:28:00
    On 2017-03-30 09:12 PM, Ennev wrote:
    I like C's syntax. It's good and easier to type (physically with a
    keyboard
    - not talking about the type system).

    But so messy :-D

    --------------------------
    about me ? : q.ennev.com/a

    ---
    � Synchronet � MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

    Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From jagossel@KK4QBN to Deavmi on Thursday, March 30, 2017 18:07:54
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Ennev on Thu Mar 30 2017 10:28 pm

    Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

    In what way? What little experience I had with it, it was no different that the strange syntax of Windows/DOS Batch scripting. I did find BASH to be more picky, though. I will agree it's a terrible language to script in, but I will add on the fact that it is the most picky.

    -jag
    Code it, script it, automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Hemo@UJOINT to jagossel on Thursday, March 30, 2017 22:32:01
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: jagossel to Deavmi on Thu Mar 30 2017 06:07 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Ennev on Thu Mar 30 2017 10:28 pm

    Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

    In what way? What little experience I had with it, it was no different that the strange syntax of Windows/DOS Batch scripting. I did find BASH to be more picky, though. I will agree it's a terrible language to script in, but I will add on the fact that it is the most picky.

    Sorry to interject here, jumping into the middle of a conversation..

    I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS.

    Both are more of a 'user interface', and over time capabilities were added so someone didn't have to sit down and write a program to do something.

    But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in that is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

    I find bash useful for scripting system commands and simple text or flat file processing. Expect is a bit nicer when you need to react different depending on a system or program response. Then again, I think that is about what these two were designed for...

    okay then.. carry on..

    --
    Hemo

    ... I either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org
  • From Ennev@MTLGEEK to Deavmi on Friday, March 31, 2017 09:24:54
    Guess so but when you need to quickly write some code and test it out it beats things like Pascal. Also it ain't that messy - I like it quite a lot. It isn't, let's say, as elegant as Pascal - I can tell you that.

    At the and it's just about what works for you :-)

    So that why it's good to get a look at what's available to see what fits your for the project you have in mind.

    All the roads lead to Rome.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Ennev@MTLGEEK to Deavmi on Friday, March 31, 2017 09:26:17
    On 2017-03-30 09:12 PM, Ennev wrote:

    Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

    And yet, when i need to do something quick that i won't repeat much again i'll go there :-D

    a script in bash using grep and sed on huge file can be so quick.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Vk3jed on Friday, March 31, 2017 15:13:32
    On 2017-03-30 10:33 PM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-
    I had to add

    Uses Crt;

    at the top, it needs the CRT unit to be able to write to the console
    creen..
    D


    FPC includes that module by default.

    I got an error until I referenced the unit, then it compiled and ran fine. :)


    .... No Virus Found. AARRGGHH!! I've got the No Virus!!
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

    What version of FPC are you using? Maybe your version doesn't implicitly include it.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to jagossel on Friday, March 31, 2017 15:14:51
    On 2017-03-31 12:07 AM, jagossel wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Ennev on Thu Mar 30 2017 10:28 pm

    Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

    In what way? What little experience I had with it, it was no different that the strange syntax of Windows/DOS Batch scripting. I did find BASH to be more
    picky, though. I will agree it's a terrible language to script in, but I will
    add on the fact that it is the most picky.

    -jag
    Code it, script it, automate it!

    Also the parser gives the funniest error messages.

    Error on line 70 when it's on 36.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Hemo on Friday, March 31, 2017 15:15:12
    On 2017-03-31 05:32 AM, Hemo wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: jagossel to Deavmi on Thu Mar 30 2017 06:07 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Ennev on Thu Mar 30 2017 10:28 pm

    Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

    In what way? What little experience I had with it, it was no different that the strange syntax of Windows/DOS Batch scripting. I did find BASH to
    be more picky, though. I will agree it's a terrible language to script in,
    but I will add on the fact that it is the most picky.

    Sorry to interject here, jumping into the middle of a conversation..

    I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS.

    Both are more of a 'user interface', and over time capabilities were added so someone didn't have to sit down and write a program to do something.

    But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in that
    is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

    I find bash useful for scripting system commands and simple text or flat file processing. Expect is a bit nicer when you need to react different depending on a system or program response. Then again, I think that is about what these
    two were designed for...

    okay then.. carry on..

    --
    Hemo

    .... I either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it.

    ---
    � Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

    It's a languae nonetheless, just a scripting language.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Hemo on Friday, March 31, 2017 15:16:48
    On 2017-03-31 05:32 AM, Hemo wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: jagossel to Deavmi on Thu Mar 30 2017 06:07 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Ennev on Thu Mar 30 2017 10:28 pm

    Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

    In what way? What little experience I had with it, it was no different that the strange syntax of Windows/DOS Batch scripting. I did find BASH to
    be more picky, though. I will agree it's a terrible language to script in,
    but I will add on the fact that it is the most picky.

    Sorry to interject here, jumping into the middle of a conversation..

    I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS.

    Both are more of a 'user interface', and over time capabilities were added so someone didn't have to sit down and write a program to do something.

    But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in that
    is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

    I find bash useful for scripting system commands and simple text or flat file processing. Expect is a bit nicer when you need to react different depending on a system or program response. Then again, I think that is about what these
    two were designed for...

    okay then.. carry on..

    --
    Hemo

    .... I either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it.

    ---
    � Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

    Python is technically seen as a scripting language too but atleast it's better. Idk though. i love Python (you can use it as a command-line,
    just differently).

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Jagossel@MTLGEEK to Hemo on Friday, March 31, 2017 09:46:55
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Hemo to jagossel on Thu Mar 30 2017 22:32:01

    I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS

    No argument from me on that point. I get it's not a programming language in the fact that there is no code to compile. I never said that it is a programming language.

    But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in th
    at
    is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

    I totally get that. My point is that other languages (both scrpting and programmimg languages) have SOME room for minor differenes in whitespacing.

    Again, I have VERY LITTLE experience with BASH and I get tripped up from time to time when I do use it and I have to look up some things in the manual.

    Examples of where I stumbled a bit:
    - Spaces inside the square brackets
    - The special switches for if a directory or file exists or doesn't exist
    - Accepting argumemts
    - Defining functions first before calling it

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Ennev on Friday, March 31, 2017 10:54:46

    At the and it's just about what works for you :-)

    So that why it's good to get a look at what's available to see what fits your for the project you have in mind.

    All the roads lead to Rome.

    ---
    Γûá Synchronet Γûá MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -



    Your last line. Does that just mean "all languages do the same thing" or can get the same job done (there are exceptions though ;), I'm sure).

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Ennev on Friday, March 31, 2017 10:57:20
    True. I feel the same way.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Jagossel on Friday, March 31, 2017 11:20:56
    Test message (sorry for doing this here)

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Deavmi on Friday, March 31, 2017 11:28:47
    Another one.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Jagossel@MTLGEEK to Deavmi on Friday, March 31, 2017 13:21:47
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to jagossel on Fri Mar 31 2017 15:14:51

    Also the parser gives the funniest error messages.

    Error on line 70 when it's on 36.

    Same thing with SQL Server and SQL Scrpits or stored procedures.

    Error on line 73...

    "How exactly does a blank line cause an error? This isn't BrainF***!"

    I susoect it has a lot of how the scripts gets parsed in regards to line numbers; not really sure how to get to the right line with the given line number.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Jagossel on Friday, March 31, 2017 14:30:40
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to jagossel on Fri Mar 31 2017 15:14:51

    Same thing with SQL Server and SQL Scrpits or stored procedures.

    Error on line 73...

    "How exactly does a blank line cause an error? This isn't BrainF***!"

    I susoect it has a lot of how the scripts gets parsed in regards to line numbers; not really sure how to get to the right line with the given line number.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    Γûá Synchronet Γûá MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -



    Yeah. It's to do with the parsing. I can sympathize with Brian Fox for that; I can dee myself running into the same sort of thing when I start writing my own parsers.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Saturday, April 01, 2017 05:13:00
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    What version of FPC are you using? Maybe your version doesn't
    implicitly include it.

    3.0.0, if I recall.


    ... Manufacturing contact lenses is harder than meets the eye.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Vk3jed on Friday, March 31, 2017 16:44:31
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Vk3jed to Deavmi on Sat Apr 01 2017 05:13 am

    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    What version of FPC are you using? Maybe your version doesn't implicitly include it.

    3.0.0, if I recall.


    ... Manufacturing contact lenses is harder than meets the eye.

    Isn;'t that quite new?

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Hemo@UJOINT to Deavmi on Friday, March 31, 2017 22:48:00
    Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-


    Python is technically seen as a scripting language too but atleast it's better. Idk though. i love Python (you can use it as a command-line,
    just differently).


    Perl falls to mind as well. now there's one that is confusing. About 15 different ways and back to do just about anything, ranging from complete gibberish to human readable. And it all works.

    ... I'm not anti-social; I'm just not user friendly.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org
  • From Hemo@UJOINT to Jagossel on Friday, March 31, 2017 22:52:00
    Jagossel wrote to Hemo <=-

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Hemo to jagossel on Thu Mar 30 2017 22:32:01

    I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS

    No argument from me on that point. I get it's not a programming
    language in the fact that there is no code to compile. I never said
    that it is a programming language.

    But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in th
    at
    is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

    I totally get that. My point is that other languages (both scrpting and programmimg languages) have SOME room for minor differenes in whitespacing.

    Again, I have VERY LITTLE experience with BASH and I get tripped up
    from time to time when I do use it and I have to look up some things in the manual.

    Examples of where I stumbled a bit:
    - Spaces inside the square brackets
    - The special switches for if a directory or file exists or doesn't
    exist
    - Accepting argumemts
    - Defining functions first before calling it


    no arguments from me on any of that. I find the more languages one tries to learn, the more confusing it can be as things do vary between them. Sometimes quite a bit. Sometimes little things, like the result when comparing strings. C returns 0 when they match, which still trips me up, becuase most other languages I may use return 1 or true when strings match.

    ... Weeds! No, that is my vineyard! Ever heard of dandelion wine?
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Hemo on Saturday, April 01, 2017 11:36:51
    On 2017-04-01 05:48 AM, Hemo wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-


    Python is technically seen as a scripting language too but atleast it's better. Idk though. i love Python (you can use it as a command-line, just differently).


    Perl falls to mind as well. now there's one that is confusing. About 15 different ways and back to do just about anything, ranging from complete gibberish to human readable. And it all works.

    ... I'm not anti-social; I'm just not user friendly.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

    Perl to me is not a nice language. Ugly as hell.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Hemo on Saturday, April 01, 2017 11:37:30
    On 2017-04-01 05:52 AM, Hemo wrote:
    Jagossel wrote to Hemo <=-

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Hemo to jagossel on Thu Mar 30 2017 22:32:01

    I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS

    No argument from me on that point. I get it's not a programming
    language in the fact that there is no code to compile. I never said
    that it is a programming language.

    But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in th
    at
    is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

    I totally get that. My point is that other languages (both scrpting and programmimg languages) have SOME room for minor differenes in whitespacing.

    Again, I have VERY LITTLE experience with BASH and I get tripped up
    from time to time when I do use it and I have to look up some things in the manual.

    Examples of where I stumbled a bit:
    - Spaces inside the square brackets
    - The special switches for if a directory or file exists or doesn't exist
    - Accepting argumemts
    - Defining functions first before calling it


    no arguments from me on any of that. I find the more languages one tries to learn, the more confusing it can be as things do vary between them. Sometimes quite a bit. Sometimes little things, like the result when comparing strings.
    C returns 0 when they match, which still trips me up, becuase most other languages I may use return 1 or true when strings match.

    ... Weeds! No, that is my vineyard! Ever heard of dandelion wine?
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

    0 makes sense. It usually is always like that. It is a neutral number.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From KK4QBN@KK4QBN to Deavmi on Saturday, April 01, 2017 10:48:24
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Ennev on Fri Mar 31 2017 10:54 am

    All the roads lead to Rome.
    Your last line. Does that just mean "all languages do the same thing" or can get the same job done (there are exceptions though ;), I'm sure).

    All roads might lead to rome, but you have to fork off and take other roads to get there, no single road will take you to rome, just as no single programming language would do 'everything' you would need it to do "I presume". So its nice to have options. I find bash scriting to be very helpul, just as anything else I can grasp on to, like Qbasic for example :)

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Hemo@UJOINT to Deavmi on Saturday, April 01, 2017 13:07:00
    Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

    On 2017-04-01 05:48 AM, Hemo wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-


    Python is technically seen as a scripting language too but atleast it's better. Idk though. i love Python (you can use it as a command-line, just differently).


    Perl falls to mind as well. now there's one that is confusing. About 15 different ways and back to do just about anything, ranging from complete gibberish to human readable. And it all works.

    ... I'm not anti-social; I'm just not user friendly.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and screaming
    -
    bbs.ujoint.org

    Perl to me is not a nice language. Ugly as hell.

    Lol - yes, I can see that, though it is a language I do a lot of work in and I try very hard to write in such a way that others can understand, and I comment things heavily. I use Perl for text file manipulations mostly, I think it excels in this area. I have started doing some of my daily taks in bash scripts when I can, because others in our support team understand bash more than Perl.

    I dabbled in Pascal back in the 1990's, even wrote a few mods for Synchronet back then that never really took off, but you can still find at least one of them in BBS archives. It was my first attempt, and much like the work I do today, it was manipulating a text file to change data. I didn't continue using Pascal, and forgot most things.

    In 1981 I wrote a huge multiple choice quiz system in Integer Basic on the Apple ][ series. It was basically a flat file database with a front end and an editor. I aced that class, and it was a fun project. I recall the teacher used the program for a few quizes in the following years. (I gave permission)

    I started a class on Python and dropped it because I couldn't get over some things. I can't recall what those things were, I should go take another look at it.

    cheers,
    Hemo
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Hemo on Saturday, April 01, 2017 16:03:03
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Hemo to Deavmi on Sat Apr 01 2017 01:07 pm

    Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

    On 2017-04-01 05:48 AM, Hemo wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-


    Python is technically seen as a scripting language too but atleast i
    t's
    better. Idk though. i love Python (you can use it as a command-line, just differently).


    Perl falls to mind as well. now there's one that is confusing. About 15 different ways and back to do just about anything, ranging from complete gibberish to human readable. And it all works.

    ... I'm not anti-social; I'm just not user friendly.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and scream
    ing
    -
    bbs.ujoint.org

    Perl to me is not a nice language. Ugly as hell.

    Lol - yes, I can see that, though it is a language I do a lot of work in and
    I
    try very hard to write in such a way that others can understand, and I comme
    nt
    things heavily. I use Perl for text file manipulations mostly, I think it excels in this area. I have started doing some of my daily taks in bash scripts when I can, because others in our support team understand bash more than Perl.

    I dabbled in Pascal back in the 1990's, even wrote a few mods for Synchronet back then that never really took off, but you can still find at least one of them in BBS archives. It was my first attempt, and much like the work I do today, it was manipulating a text file to change data. I didn't continue us
    ing
    Pascal, and forgot most things.

    In 1981 I wrote a huge multiple choice quiz system in Integer Basic on the Apple ][ series. It was basically a flat file database with a front end and
    an
    editor. I aced that class, and it was a fun project. I recall the teacher used the program for a few quizes in the following years. (I gave permissio
    n)

    I started a class on Python and dropped it because I couldn't get over some things. I can't recall what those things were, I should go take another loo
    k
    at it.

    cheers,
    Hemo

    Thanks for the info. Maybe take a look at Python and you can figure those things out. Maybe it's the heavy use of OOP?

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Sunday, April 02, 2017 07:13:00
    Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    3.0.0, if I recall.

    Isn;'t that quite new?

    Yep, current version is 3.0.2.


    ... If you feel strongly about graffiti, sign a partition.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Jagossel on Sunday, April 02, 2017 07:25:00
    Jagossel wrote to Deavmi <=-

    Same thing with SQL Server and SQL Scrpits or stored procedures.

    Error on line 73...

    "How exactly does a blank line cause an error? This isn't BrainF***!"

    I susoect it has a lot of how the scripts gets parsed in regards to
    line numbers; not really sure how to get to the right line with the
    given line number.

    I would say it's because the parser has to be sure there is an error and that it doesn't prematurely flag an error inside a long block (like a function or loop), so quite often, the offending error is well before where the compiler or interpreter flags it. For example, nest a few if-then-else statements in a bash shell script and leave out an inner "fi", and depending on the code, the error can be indicated a fair way down the script. Similar things happen when quotes aren't closed, sometimes these will go all the way to the end of the file with "unexpected end of file".


    ... I can see clearly now, my brain is gone...
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Hemo on Sunday, April 02, 2017 07:27:00
    Hemo wrote to Deavmi <=-

    Perl falls to mind as well. now there's one that is confusing. About
    15 different ways and back to do just about anything, ranging from complete gibberish to human readable. And it all works.

    I've dabbled in Perl, took a bit of study, but looked like quite a useful language. I mostly script in BASH though, because at one stage, the code I was fiddling with most was almost all BASH scripts, and it's always available on Linux boxes. :) Haven't ventured into Python yet, but I know a lot swear by
    t.


    ... When eating an elephant, take one bite at a time.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Hemo on Sunday, April 02, 2017 07:30:00
    Hemo wrote to Jagossel <=-


    Examples of where I stumbled a bit:
    - Spaces inside the square brackets
    - The special switches for if a directory or file exists or doesn't
    exist
    - Accepting argumemts
    - Defining functions first before calling it

    Yep, I think I've tripped up on most of these too at one stage, but you do learn the rules, eventually. :) As for those switches, I just pull up a copy of one of the many excellent references available online, when I need help with specifics of syntax. Beats my memory, which tends to favour concepts over detail.

    no arguments from me on any of that. I find the more languages one
    tries to learn, the more confusing it can be as things do vary between them. Sometimes quite a bit. Sometimes little things, like the result when comparing strings. C returns 0 when they match, which still trips
    me up, becuase most other languages I may use return 1 or true when strings match.

    Same with anything where there's a lot of alternatives to learn. There's potential for confusion. :)


    ... It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Sunday, April 02, 2017 07:32:00
    Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

    no arguments from me on any of that. I find the more languages one tries to learn, the more confusing it can be as things do vary between them.
    ometimes
    quite a bit. Sometimes little things, like the result when comparing
    strings.

    C returns 0 when they match, which still trips me up, becuase most other languages I may use return 1 or true when strings match.


    0 makes sense. It usually is always like that. It is a neutral number.

    It depends how you define your logic, and there's no right or wrong way for language designers to define it, as long as the programmers using that language get it right in their code! :)


    ... !enilgat cinataS !eraweB µ
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to KK4QBN on Sunday, April 02, 2017 07:36:00
    KK4QBN wrote to Deavmi <=-

    All roads might lead to rome, but you have to fork off and take other roads to get there, no single road will take you to rome, just as no single programming language would do 'everything' you would need it to
    do "I presume". So its nice to have options. I find bash scriting to be very helpul, just as anything else I can grasp on to, like Qbasic for example :)

    Horses for courses. Scripting languages are very useful. On Linux in particular, scripts can often be the glue that joines other software together, and language like Python and Perl can do a lot of jobs normally associated with compiled languages on modern machines, but there's still a place for compiled code too.

    I've started my relearning of Pascal, and it's coming back to me very quickly. Hopefully by the end of winter (i.e. around September for those north of the equator ;) ), I'll be able to write some decent code again in Pascal and get some of those projects I've had on hold moving (and perhaps open source a couple :) ).


    ... The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Hemo on Sunday, April 02, 2017 07:46:00
    Hemo wrote to Deavmi <=-

    Perl to me is not a nice language. Ugly as hell.

    Lol - yes, I can see that, though it is a language I do a lot of work
    in and I try very hard to write in such a way that others can
    understand, and I comment things heavily. I use Perl for text file manipulations mostly, I think it excels in this area. I have started doing some of my daily taks in bash scripts when I can, because others
    in our support team understand bash more than Perl.

    That was my impression too, though I've really done very little Perl. I'm more a BASH guy when it comes to scripting.

    I dabbled in Pascal back in the 1990's, even wrote a few mods for Synchronet back then that never really took off, but you can still find
    at least one of them in BBS archives. It was my first attempt, and
    much like the work I do today, it was manipulating a text file to
    change data. I didn't continue using Pascal, and forgot most things.

    I started with TP 3 on CP/M (on a Z80 Softcard in an Apple // no less!) in 1984 at school then progressed to TP on the PC in the mid 1980s and into the early 1990s. I wrote a bit of code, including my own Morse Code tutor, which was the only way I could obtain one, because there was no Internet in 1989, and I didn't have a modem anyway, and lived out in the sticks. A few years later, with the help of a friend for the Z80 assembler, I ported that code to TP 3 on CP/M, with the assembler timing routines for sound generation and Morse timing (coded as drop in functions and procedures for their DOS equivalents). That was released to the public domain on some local BBSs, but I haven't seen a copy in recent years.

    In 1981 I wrote a huge multiple choice quiz system in Integer Basic on
    the Apple ][ series. It was basically a flat file database with a
    front end and an editor. I aced that class, and it was a fun project.
    I recall the teacher used the program for a few quizes in the following years. (I gave permission)

    Cool. I never did much with integer basic, I was more an Applesoft guy back then, and once playing with CP/M, it was MBASIC on that platform, though I much preferred Pascal.

    I started a class on Python and dropped it because I couldn't get over some things. I can't recall what those things were, I should go take another look at it.

    I should look at Python sometime, but I have a ridiculous number of things on the go these days, relearning Padcal is a lesser learning curve, because a lot of it will simply come back to me with use.


    ... Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Deavmi on Sunday, April 02, 2017 07:47:00
    Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

    Thanks for the info. Maybe take a look at Python and you can figure
    those things out. Maybe it's the heavy use of OOP?

    That's one concept that I took to fairly naturally. I encountered OOP with Java and had no problem understanding it.


    ... Spam will keep in it's can until the end of time.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Digital Man to Hemo on Saturday, April 01, 2017 16:43:36
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Hemo to Jagossel on Fri Mar 31 2017 10:52 pm

    Jagossel wrote to Hemo <=-

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Hemo to jagossel on Thu Mar 30 2017 22:32:01

    I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS

    No argument from me on that point. I get it's not a programming language in the fact that there is no code to compile. I never said that it is a programming language.

    But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in th
    at
    is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

    I totally get that. My point is that other languages (both scrpting and programmimg languages) have SOME room for minor differenes in whitespacing.

    Again, I have VERY LITTLE experience with BASH and I get tripped up from time to time when I do use it and I have to look up some things in the manual.

    Examples of where I stumbled a bit:
    - Spaces inside the square brackets
    - The special switches for if a directory or file exists or doesn't exist
    - Accepting argumemts
    - Defining functions first before calling it


    no arguments from me on any of that. I find the more languages one tries to learn, the more confusing it can be as things do vary between them. Sometimes quite a bit. Sometimes little things, like the result when comparing strings. C returns 0 when they match, which still trips me up, becuase most other languages I may use return 1 or true when strings match.

    But you're referring to strcmp(), which is just one string comparison function. You could write your own that returned a boolean value very easily:
    bool strings_match(const char* str1, const char* str2) {
    return strcmp(str1, str2) == 0;
    }

    ... or actuall compare each character in the string and return whatever you like.

    But the whole reason that strcmp() returns an integer (and not a boolean) is because it tells the caller (you) which string is "greater" (for sorting purposes), which can be very handy indeed (e.g. if < 0, then str1 is less than str2). So it does more than just tell if you 2 strings match, it tells you how the 2 strings compare with eachother.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #83:
    Donations to the Synchronet project are welcome @ http://wiki.synchro.net/donate
    Norco, CA WX: 74.0°F, 29.0% humidity, 15 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Eyearrvee to KK4QBN on Wednesday, April 12, 2017 21:55:38
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: KK4QBN to Deavmi on Sat Apr 01 2017 10:48 am

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Ennev on Fri Mar 31 2017 10:54 am

    All the roads lead to Rome.
    Your last line. Does that just mean "all languages do the same thing" o
    r
    can get the same job done (there are exceptions though ;), I'm sure).

    All roads might lead to rome, but you have to fork off and take other roads
    to
    get there, no single road will take you to rome, just as no single programmi
    ng
    language would do 'everything' you would need it to do "I presume". So its n
    ice
    to have options. I find bash scriting to be very helpul, just as anything el
    se
    I can grasp on to, like Qbasic for example :)

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    I like Qbasic too. I dont know why. maybe I have a goto mind.
    Irv Handel
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Eyearrvee on Thursday, April 13, 2017 11:46:04
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: KK4QBN to Deavmi on Sat Apr 01 2017 10:48 am

    r
    to
    ng
    ice
    se

    I like Qbasic too. I dont know why. maybe I have a goto mind.
    Irv Handel
    ---
    Γûá Synchronet Γûá Vertrauen Γûá Home of Synchronet Γûá telnet://vert.synchro.net



    The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From jagossel@KK4QBN to Deavmi on Thursday, April 13, 2017 15:05:12
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Eyearrvee on Thu Apr 13 2017 11:46 am

    The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

    It's in C# as well; although, rarely used. Never understood the "goto" in C# or any other OO language.

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on the TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    -jag
    Code it, script it, automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to jagossel on Thursday, April 13, 2017 17:47:30
    Any language with sub routines at the least.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Deavmi on Monday, April 17, 2017 18:48:50
    On 13/04/2017 23:47, Deavmi wrote:
    Any language with sub routines at the least.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    Makes the support for a goto weird.

    ---
    Synchronet KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Mortifis@ALLEYCAT to jagossel on Saturday, May 27, 2017 12:14:00
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Eyearrvee on Thu Apr 13 2017 11:46 am

    The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

    It's in C# as well; although, rarely used. Never understood the "goto" in C# or any other OO language.

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on the TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    Did you RETURN?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Twisted Trucker BBS, Dartmouth NS Canada
  • From Jagossel@MTLGEEK to Mortifis on Saturday, May 27, 2017 22:29:51
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mortifis to jagossel on Sat May 27 2017 12:14:00

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on th TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    Did you RETURN?

    Did I GOTO using RETURNs? :D See what I did there?

    As a kid, I used GOTO a lot and never really understood the point of GOSUBS. Now, after being a professional software developer for over 10 years, and
    going through the Usborne programming books from the 1980s that they put online for viewing (thanks to Nostalgia Nerd for providing the link to them in his video description on YouTube), I am finally beginning to see the vaule of GOSUB/RETURN: provides reusability in a structured programming paradigm, if done right. So, it would make sense that BASIC could move from being a structured paradigm to a procedural one fairly easily. Now-a-days, BASIC has become more object oriented (e.g. Visual Basic).

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Joe Delahaye@LIONSDEN to Mortifis on Saturday, May 27, 2017 21:48:31
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mortifis to jagossel on Sat May 27 2017 12:14:00

    The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

    It's in C# as well; although, rarely used. Never understood the
    "goto" in C# or any other OO language.

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on
    the TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    Did you RETURN?

    1 If X= Y goto 10
    10 Exit




    Joe

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lion's Den BBS
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to jagossel on Sunday, May 28, 2017 09:13:56
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: jagossel to Deavmi on Thu Apr 13 2017 15:05:12

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Eyearrvee on Thu Apr 13 2017 11:46 am

    The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

    It's in C# as well; although, rarely used. Never understood the "goto" in C
    #
    or any other OO language.

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on the TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    -jag
    Code it, script it, automate it!

    I need structured programming. Lol. And `goto` is not that.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Mro@BBSESINF to Deavmi on Sunday, May 28, 2017 10:20:59
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to jagossel on Sun May 28 2017 09:13 am

    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net`


    sweet now i know your ip address
    [kk4qbn.synchro.net]
    User: Deavmi #18 In real life: Tristan B. Kildaire
    From: Worcester, ZA Handle: Deavmi
    Birth: 08/25/99 (Age: 17 years) Gender: M
    Shell: lbshell Editor:
    Last login Sun May 28 2017 10:11:51 EDT
    via HTTP from 41.164.54.42 [41.164.54.42]
    No plan.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Mickey@OXFORDMI to Joe Delahaye on Sunday, May 28, 2017 11:04:00
    On 05/27/17, Joe Delahaye considered the following...

    1 If X= Y goto 10
    10 Exit


    HEY! THATS NOT FAIR!!! Get back here. :-)


    Mick Manning

    Central Ontario Remote BBS
    Telnet: oxfordmi.synchro.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A33 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Central Ontario Remote
  • From Joe Delahaye@LIONSDEN to Mickey on Sunday, May 28, 2017 23:01:06
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mickey to Joe Delahaye on Sun May 28 2017 11:04:00

    1 If X= Y goto 10
    10 Exit


    HEY! THATS NOT FAIR!!! Get back here. :-)

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>


    Joe

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lion's Den BBS
  • From Jagossel@MTLGEEK to Joe Delahaye on Monday, May 29, 2017 19:58:59
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 23:01:06

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other day the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    What? Ok, that I have got to see: a Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 3 hooked up to a 60" TV. :D

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Knightmare@P99BBS to Mortifis on Monday, May 29, 2017 20:28:18
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mortifis to jagossel on Sat May 27 2017 12:14 pm

    It's in C# as well; although, rarely used. Never understood the
    "goto" in C# or any other OO language.

    Did you RETURN?


    I think you're confused with GOSUB.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Precinct 99 - p99bbs.homenet.org:2323 - Lewis Center, OH USA
  • From Denn Gray@OUTWEST to Joe Delahaye on Monday, May 29, 2017 23:22:49
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 11:01 pm

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    wow, I have'nt messed with a CoCo since about 1990.
    My 1st computer was a 4k vic 20 then I bought a CoCo 2
    My vic 20 had a casste tape drive lol that was a huge waste loading programs. had dual 5.25 drives on my CoCo.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Outwest BBS - outwestbbs.com - DOORS - Files -Dove-Net
  • From Joe Delahaye@LIONSDEN to Jagossel on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 12:17:05
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Jagossel to Joe Delahaye on Mon May 29 2017 19:58:59

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the
    other day the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    What? Ok, that I have got to see: a Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 3 hooked up to a 60" TV. :D

    Yup. Even played one of my games on it. One of the cartridges.


    Joe

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lion's Den BBS
  • From Joe Delahaye@LIONSDEN to Denn Gray on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 12:19:13
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Denn Gray to Joe Delahaye on Mon May 29 2017 23:22:49

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the
    other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    wow, I have'nt messed with a CoCo since about 1990.
    My 1st computer was a 4k vic 20 then I bought a CoCo 2
    My vic 20 had a casste tape drive lol that was a huge waste loading programs. had dual 5.25 drives on my CoCo.

    Had both tape, and Floppies. Used the dual sided 1/2 height drives with OS9. My buddy spent the money and got a HD interface.


    Joe

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lion's Den BBS
  • From Chris@DMINE to Jagossel on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 23:25:40
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Jagossel to Mortifis on Sat May 27 2017 10:29 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mortifis to jagossel on Sat May 27 2017 12:14:00

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    Did you RETURN?

    Did I GOTO using RETURNs? :D See what I did there?

    As a kid, I used GOTO a lot and never really understood the point of GOSUBS. Now, after being a professional software developer for over 10 years, and going through the Usborne programming books from the 1980s that they put onl for viewing (thanks to Nostalgia Nerd for providing the link to them in his video description on YouTube), I am finally beginning to see the vaule of GOSUB/RETURN: provides reusability in a structured programming paradigm, if done right. So, it would make sense that BASIC could move from being a structured paradigm to a procedural one fairly easily. Now-a-days, BASIC ha become more object oriented (e.g. Visual Basic).

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!



    I remember gosub basically being the 'less evil' goto. It was a more structured way of calling subroutines. I can't remember if it was used in Basic09 or if it was more a DECB/Gwbasic invention.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    CDP
    The Diamond Mine BBS - telnet://bbs.dmine.net
    The Retro Room - http://forums.delphiforums.com/retroroom ------------------------------------------------------------------

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Chris@DMINE to Jagossel on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 23:30:03
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Jagossel to Joe Delahaye on Mon May 29 2017 07:58 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 23:01:06

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    What? Ok, that I have got to see: a Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 3 hooked up a 60" TV. :D

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!


    I haven't seen it on a 60 inch tv yet, but footage from more recent Cocofest meetings show it running on modern led/lcd monitors which I thought was really cool. It's really impressive the amount of development they are doing on Cocos to this day.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    CDP
    The Diamond Mine BBS - telnet://bbs.dmine.net
    The Retro Room - http://forums.delphiforums.com/retroroom ------------------------------------------------------------------

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Jazzy_J@JAYSCAFE to Chris on Thursday, June 08, 2017 15:19:00
    Chris wrote to Jagossel <=-

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Jagossel to Joe Delahaye on Mon May 29 2017 07:58 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 23:01:06

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    What? Ok, that I have got to see: a Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 3 hooked up a 60" TV. :D

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!


    I haven't seen it on a 60 inch tv yet, but footage from more recent Cocofest meetings show it running on modern led/lcd monitors which I thought was really cool. It's really impressive the amount of
    development they are doing on Cocos to this day.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    CDP
    The Diamond Mine BBS - telnet://bbs.dmine.net
    The Retro Room - http://forums.delphiforums.com/retroroom ------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've got a C64/C128 hooked to a 17" and the capability to put it on the 55" Love it.

    It looks better on a 4:3 ratio than a 19:6. The aspect stays the same, but, there is a lot of death space on the 19:6

    Jazzy_J
    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Jay's Cafe' tn://jayscafe.jayctheriot.com 23
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Mro on Sunday, June 11, 2017 12:50:37
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mro to Deavmi on Sun May 28 2017 10:20:59

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to jagossel on Sun May 28 2017 09:13 am

    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net`


    sweet now i know your ip address
    [kk4qbn.synchro.net]
    User: Deavmi #18 In real life: Tristan B. Kildaire
    From: Worcester, ZA Handle: Deavmi
    Birth: 08/25/99 (Age: 17 years) Gender: M
    Shell: lbshell Editor:
    Last login Sun May 28 2017 10:11:51 EDT
    via HTTP from 41.164.54.42 [41.164.54.42]
    No plan.
    Yeah you do. And it ain't actually mine it's the ISPs major NAT.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Sam Alexander to Joe Delahaye on Friday, June 23, 2017 13:29:06
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 11:01 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mickey to Joe Delahaye on Sun May 28 2017 11:04:00

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>


    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well. First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.
  • From Joe Delahaye@LIONSDEN to Sam Alexander on Friday, June 23, 2017 18:53:13
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Sam Alexander to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jun 23 2017 13:29:06

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the
    other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>


    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well. First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.


    My first computer was a CoCo 1. Modified with internal speakes <G> The 3 also has internal speakers and max memory. We built our own mem expansion cards


    Joe





    ... Now and then an innocent man is sent to the legislature.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lion's Den BBS
  • From Denn Gray@OUTWEST to Joe Delahaye on Friday, June 23, 2017 22:06:54
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Sam Alexander on Fri Jun 23 2017 06:53 pm

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the
    other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>


    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well. First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.

    I also started out on a CoCo 2, My brother and I ran our first BBS in 1988 on a CoCo 2 64k ram on a basic program written by my brother.
    I recently found the code of his BBS software out in my garage.
    I scanned it in pdf format and uploaded it to my BBS.
    I also have almost every Rainbow magazine on my BBS in PDF.
    I need to find a CoCo2 or 3 at a yard sale.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ the Outwest BBS - outwestbbs.com
  • From Joe Delahaye@LIONSDEN to Denn Gray on Saturday, June 24, 2017 09:50:34
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Denn Gray to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jun 23 2017 22:06:54

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the
    other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>


    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well.
    First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.

    I also started out on a CoCo 2, My brother and I ran our first BBS in 1988 on a CoCo 2 64k ram on a basic program written by my brother.
    I recently found the code of his BBS software out in my garage.
    I scanned it in pdf format and uploaded it to my BBS.
    I also have almost every Rainbow magazine on my BBS in PDF.
    I need to find a CoCo2 or 3 at a yard sale.


    Not sure if I still have the magazines or not. May have, sicne there are two boxes sitting with the rest of the stuff.


    Joe

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lion's Den BBS
  • From Roadhog@OUTWEST to Sam Alexander on Sunday, June 25, 2017 18:33:28
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Sam Alexander to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jun 23 2017 01:29 pm

    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well. First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.

    there are many of us that started out on the CoCo, back then it was an awesome machine for the price.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ the Outwest BBS - outwestbbs.com Telnet - outwestbbs.com:23
  • From Deavmi@KK4QBN to Darkages on Friday, June 30, 2017 03:30:46
    I take this back mostly now as I can use the syntax.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net) +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From Deavmi@USERCLUB to Sam Alexander on Friday, August 18, 2017 06:25:15
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 11:01 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mickey to Joe Delahaye on Sun May 28 2017 11:04:00

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>


    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well. First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ telnet://vert.synchro.net
    You got any compilers on that Coco currently installed?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ UsersClub BBS - userclub-bbs.com