On 01/30/16, Wilfred van Velzen pondered and said...

Unfortunately it has been determined that fastecho always drops
seen-by's when it imports messages from another zone. This can't be
turned of by a configuration option.

So for instance the link between Paul Quinn and Tommi Koivula, who both use fastecho, drops them in both directions. Tommi was thinking about moving to hpt though, the last time I spoke with him about this...

I'm not sure this is correct so have replied in this echoarea so Paul et al. can comment.

I'm using FE and as far as I can see it does not strip/drop seen-by's when messages are imported in via your Z2 feed in to my HUB system.

In fact you can tell FE to keep seen-bys on a message base by message base basis. In my case I have everything set to retain/keep seen-by's indefinately.

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.11 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (3:770/100)

Hi! Paul,

On 01/31/2016 06:52 PM, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

I'm using FE and as far as I can see it does not strip/drop seen-by's when messages are imported in via your Z2 feed in to my HUB system.

In fact you can tell FE to keep seen-bys on a message base by message base basis. In my case I have everything set to retain/keep seen-by's indefinately.

Wilfred is correct, as he stated about their being stripped. We can't see it in our local bases. But when messages are exported or tossed during incoming, the seen-by are stripped. I've seen the effect on -this- system.

I intend to re-work my mail moving, basing inter-zone exchanges via this node.
However I'm enjoying a bit of 'real life' and haven't yet made any config changes. I need motivation. :)

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: Paul's other Linux vBox - Maryborough, Qld, OZ (3:640/1384)

31 Jan 16 19:15, you wrote to Paul Hayton:

@MSGID: 3:640/1384 56add09e
@REPLY: 3:770/100 483fae9b
@PID: JamNNTPd/Linux 1
@CHRS: UTF-8 2
@TZUTC: 1000
@TID: CrashMail II/Linux 0.71
Hi! Paul,

On 01/31/2016 06:52 PM, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

I'm using FE and as far as I can see it does not strip/drop seen-by's
when messages are imported in via your Z2 feed in to my HUB system.

In fact you can tell FE to keep seen-bys on a message base by message
base basis. In my case I have everything set to retain/keep seen-by's
indefinately.

Wilfred is correct, as he stated about their being stripped. We can't
see it in our local bases. But when messages are exported or tossed during incoming, the seen-by are stripped. I've seen the effect on
-this- system.

there is evidence of it in this post i'm replying to, too... see below...

I intend to re-work my mail moving, basing inter-zone exchanges via
this node. However I'm enjoying a bit of 'real life' and haven't yet
made any config changes. I need motivation. :)

i've been thinking about adjusting my stuff, too... just trying to work out the
best way to go about it and what the final result will look like...

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: Paul's other Linux vBox - Maryborough, Qld, OZ (3:640/1384) SEEN-BY: 109/500 116/116 123/5 52 140 400 500 789 124/5013 5014 135/300 SEEN-BY: 140/1 154/10 203/0 226/600 229/426 261/38 320/101 119 219 322/759 SEEN-BY: 342/11 806 3634/12 24 27 50
@PATH: 640/1384 384 203/0 320/119 123/500 3634/12

640/384 or 320/119 are stripping as there is no 640/* entries in the seenbys...
203/0 is left because that's the direct uplink...

)\/(ark

... Atkins is popular because you can eat as many 40 oz steaks as you want.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hi Paul.

31 Jan 16 21:52, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

On 01/30/16, Wilfred van Velzen pondered and said...

Unfortunately it has been determined that fastecho always drops
seen-by's when it imports messages from another zone. This can't
be turned of by a configuration option.

So for instance the link between Paul Quinn and Tommi Koivula,
who both use fastecho, drops them in both directions. Tommi was
thinking about moving to hpt though, the last time I spoke with
him about this...

I'm not sure this is correct so have replied in this echoarea so Paul
et al. can comment.

I'm using FE and as far as I can see it does not strip/drop seen-by's
when messages are imported in via your Z2 feed in to my HUB system.

In fact you can tell FE to keep seen-bys on a message base by message
base basis. In my case I have everything set to retain/keep seen-by's indefinately.

Sorry Paul, but not true. You just cannot see it happening until you check packets that are leaving from your system.

I investigated this, and it is also documented in fastecho.doc:

==== cut ====

When your system acts as outbound zonegate you may need to strip
all the SEEN-BY information present in your echomail for all messages addressed out-of-zone. FastEcho is capable to do that simply by enabling this feature (which is disabled by default). This can be done
by using the flag ZONEGATE in FEOPT. In any case FastEcho acts as an inbound-zone-gate, which means SEEN-BYs will be stripped when processing EchoMail coming from another zone.

==== cut ====

Just read the "in any case"...

'Tommi

---
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:cb0:f1d0:2:221:6 (2:221/6)

Re: Proper dupe prevention
By: mark lewis to Paul Quinn on Sun Jan 31 2016 10:26 am

i've been thinking about adjusting my stuff, too... just trying to work out the best way to go about it and what the final result will look like...

I've been thinking about that too. I ran FD/FE/RA years ago in dos and os/2 so I know why you all are reluctant to be done with it. I wonder if Tobias Burchhardt still has the source and would be interested in updating it, or releasing the source under the gpl licence?

In my case I would run fidoconfig and friends, HPT and HTICK. I have them setup here but not running them ATM but find them to be very well behaved.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... To err is human, to really screw up it takes a computer!
--- SBBSecho 2.33-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada - trmb.ca (1:153/757)

31 Jan 16 11:20, you wrote to me:

i've been thinking about adjusting my stuff, too... just trying to
work out the best way to go about it and what the final result will
look like...

I've been thinking about that too. I ran FD/FE/RA years ago in dos and os/2 so I know why you all are reluctant to be done with it.

yes except that i won't drop it completely... more likely to move it back a step and separate the hubbing activities to another address...

I wonder if Tobias Burchhardt still has the source and would be
interested in updating it, or releasing the source under the gpl
licence?

i don't know if he would do that or not... he is issuing keys for the asking these days... i haven't spoken with him in a long time but his system polls here numerous times every day :)

In my case I would run fidoconfig and friends, HPT and HTICK. I have
them setup here but not running them ATM but find them to be very well behaved.

i haven't played with HTICK yet... this point system is binkd/HPT/GED... it is going to take more time to try to figure out the HTICK stuff and then to be able to adjust all of that to the new system when it gets placed...

)\/(ark

... Chilies are one of the four basic food groups.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hi! mark,

On 31 Jan 16 10:26, you wrote to me:

* Origin: Paul's other Linux vBox - Maryborough, Qld, OZ
(3:640/1384)
SEEN-BY: 109/500 116/116 123/5 52 140 400 500 789 124/5013 5014
135/300
SEEN-BY: 140/1 154/10 203/0 226/600 229/426 261/38 320/101 119
219 322/759
SEEN-BY: 342/11 806 3634/12 24 27 50
@PATH: 640/1384 384 203/0 320/119 123/500 3634/12

640/384 or 320/119 are stripping as there is no 640/* entries in the seenbys... 203/0 is left because that's the direct uplink...

Yep. ~640/384 will be the culprit. Björn was very particular about seen-by stripping from day #1; I was unaware of FE's shortcomings then.

Cheers,
Paul.

... Ahh...hhh...hhh........ I forgot what I was going to say.
--- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
* Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)

On 01/31/16, Paul Quinn pondered and said...

In fact you can tell FE to keep seen-bys on a message base by message basis. In my case I have everything set to retain/keep seen-by's indefinately.

Sigh, thanks for this.

--- Mystic BBS v1.11 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (3:770/100)

On 01/31/16, Tommi Koivula pondered and said...

Just read the "in any case"...

Thanks Tommi :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.11 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (3:770/100)

Hi! Paul,

On 01 Feb 16 13:13, you wrote to me:

Sigh, thanks for this.

I know how you feel. I only found out at the end of last year, and felt that I'd been kicked in the 'family jewels'.

Well, as I recall suggesting once before... there's always FMail. Though it cannot read the FE config directly, it can use a FE-generated Areas.Bbs file. Section 2.1 (FSetup) refers.

For me, I will keep FE for domestic links only.

Cheers,
Paul.

... Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
--- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
* Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)

01 Feb 16 08:43, you wrote to me:

640/384 or 320/119 are stripping as there is no 640/* entries in the
seenbys... 203/0 is left because that's the direct uplink...

Yep. ~640/384 will be the culprit. Björn was very particular about seen-by stripping from day #1;

for a huge change in the delivery mechanism, i don't doubt it...

I was unaware of FE's shortcomings then.

what "shortcomings"??? ;) ;) ;) this action may be valuable on othernets or possibly gated echos between two FTNs ;)

)\/(ark

... You can send me to college, but you can't make me think.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello mark!

Sunday January 31 2016 10:26, mark lewis wrote to Paul Quinn:

SEEN-BY: 109/500 116/116 123/5 52 140 400 500 789 124/5013 5014
135/300
SEEN-BY: 140/1 154/10 203/0 226/600 229/426 261/38 320/101 119
219 322/759
SEEN-BY: 342/11 806 3634/12 24 27 50
@PATH: 640/1384 384 203/0 320/119 123/500 3634/12

640/384 or 320/119 are stripping as there is no 640/* entries in the seenbys... 203/0 is left because that's the direct uplink...

320/119 runs FastEcho 1.46.1 under OS/2, so it would appear the stripping is happening there. When I have time, I will have to look into another tosser for
this node. FE is actually working as it was designed and documented. Tobias didn't have any clue that one day something like the FidoWeb would exist.

Andrew

---
* Origin: Bits & Bytes BBS * V.Everything! * 860/503-8857 (1:320/119)

On 02/01/16, Paul Quinn pondered and said...

I know how you feel. I only found out at the end of last year, and felt that I'd been kicked in the 'family jewels'.

Heh.. nice way of putting it Paul... kinda know how you feel.

I like FE also but would like something that does all FE can do but did not strip interzonal seen-bys

Well, as I recall suggesting once before... there's always FMail.
Though it cannot read the FE config directly, it can use a FE-generated Areas.Bbs file. Section 2.1 (FSetup) refers.

So Fmail would handle inter zonal stuff without stripping? I need to get my head around what other options there are for tossers out there. Ideally something that runs under windows.

..and I'm picking this is not the echo to chat about that :)

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.11 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (3:770/100)

31 Jan 16 19:04, you wrote to mark lewis:

640/384 or 320/119 are stripping as there is no 640/* entries in
the seenbys... 203/0 is left because that's the direct uplink...

320/119 runs FastEcho 1.46.1 under OS/2, so it would appear the
stripping is happening there. When I have time, I will have to look
into another tosser for this node.

It is quite easy to go to Hpt. I had two AKA's running in FE: 2:221/1 and 2:221/0. I separated those, now 2:221/0 is running Hpt.

My main link to Zone1 is/was connected to 2:221/0, so this problem was solved pretty easy.

Our link, as well as my link to Paul still performs the zonegate stripping, but
it really is not a big issue as long as the dupe detection works.

FE is actually working as it was designed and documented. Tobias
didn't have any clue that one day something like the FidoWeb would
exist.

Yes. But still hardcoding is never a good thing...

Can anyone contact Tobias to change this? :)

'Tommi

---
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:cb0:f1d0:2:221:6 (2:221/6)

On 1.2.2016 8:23, Paul Hayton - Paul Quinn wrote:

I need to get my head around what other options there are for tossers
out there. Ideally something that runs under windows.

For Windows I would suggest FMail or Hpt. They both are still in development. Hpt can import FE setup, however there's still manual work to do. And it won't support Hudson Message Base.

'Tommi

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:47.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/47
* Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/360)

Hi! Paul,

On 02/01/2016 04:23 PM, you wrote:

head around what other options there are for tossers out there. Ideally something that runs under windows.

FMail should perform well. It has something up its sleeve that FE lacked: a modern, currently-maintained, Windows version.

.and I'm picking this is not the echo to chat about that :)

Look for its support echo called 'FMAIL_HELP'. Keep in mind that Wilfred is the current maintainer of FMail. Plenty of support there if you choose it.

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: Paul's other Linux vBox - Maryborough, Qld, OZ (3:640/1384)

On 02/01/16, Paul Quinn pondered and said...

FMail should perform well. It has something up its sleeve that FE
lacked: a modern, currently-maintained, Windows version.

Thanks I will look at this (and others). I also need to weigh up how much of
an issue this really is and the cost/benefit of taking the time etc. to
change out systems.

Look for its support echo called 'FMAIL_HELP'. Keep in mind that
Wilfred is the current maintainer of FMail. Plenty of support there if you choose it.

Yep he's great to deal with :)

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.11 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (3:770/100)

On 02/01/16, Tommi Koivula pondered and said...

For Windows I would suggest FMail or Hpt. They both are still in development. Hpt can import FE setup, however there's still manual work
to do. And it won't support Hudson Message Base.

As always, thanks for the helpful info Tommi :)

I'll look at both.

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.11 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (3:770/100)

Re: Proper dupe prevention
By: Tommi Koivula to Paul Hayton on Sun Jan 31 2016 03:42 pm

Unfortunately it has been determined that fastecho always drops
seen-by's when it imports messages from another zone. This can't
be turned of by a configuration option.

Isn't this the correct treatment ? There shouldn't be any zones on seen-by's. --- SBBSecho 2.33-Linux
* Origin: (1:218/215)

Re: Proper dupe prevention
By: Alan Ianson to mark lewis on Sun Jan 31 2016 06:20 am

I've been thinking about that too. I ran FD/FE/RA years ago in dos and os/2 so I know why you all are reluctant to be done with it. I wonder if Tobias Burchhardt still has the source and would be interested in updating it, or releasing the source under the gpl licence?

Nice try, but the guy still demands a properly completed registration form before issuing a key.
--- SBBSecho 2.33-Linux
* Origin: (1:218/215)

Hi Dran.

12 Apr 16 06:44, you wrote to me:

Re: Proper dupe prevention
By: Tommi Koivula to Paul Hayton on Sun Jan 31 2016 03:42 pm

Unfortunately it has been determined that fastecho always drops
seen-by's when it imports messages from another zone. This can't
be turned of by a configuration option.

Isn't this the correct treatment ? There shouldn't be any zones on seen-by's.

Yes and no.

20+ years ago it was ok.

Today there are no overlapping networks between zones, so the seenby's may be intact.

This should be configurable by sysop. Not hardcoded by programmer. :)

'Tommi

---
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:cb0:f1d0:2:221:6 (2:221/6)

Hi Dran.

12 Apr 16 06:47, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

Re: Proper dupe prevention
By: Alan Ianson to mark lewis on Sun Jan 31 2016 06:20 am

I've been thinking about that too. I ran FD/FE/RA years ago in dos and
os/2 so I know why you all are reluctant to be done with it. I wonder if
Tobias Burchhardt still has the source and would be interested in updating
it, or releasing the source under the gpl licence?

Nice try, but the guy still demands a properly completed registration form before issuing a key.

Did you contact Tobias recently?

'Tommi

---
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:cb0:f1d0:2:221:6 (2:221/6)

12 Apr 16 06:44, you wrote to Tommi Koivula:

Unfortunately it has been determined that fastecho always drops
seen-by's when it imports messages from another zone. This can't be
turned of by a configuration option.

Isn't this the correct treatment ? There shouldn't be any zones on seen-by's.

you are misreading what is being said... FE always strips seenbys when messages
come in from or go out to another zone...

as far as zones in seenbys, seenbys and paths should have gone 4D years and years ago...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey

... I wonder if I have enough chiles to get me through the winter.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

12 Apr 16 06:47, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

I've been thinking about that too. I ran FD/FE/RA years ago in dos
and os/2 so I know why you all are reluctant to be done with it. I
wonder if Tobias Burchhardt still has the source and would be
interested in updating it, or releasing the source under the gpl
licence?

Nice try, but the guy still demands a properly completed registration
form before issuing a key.

so what's the problem? you can't fill out a simple form and send it in???

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey

... The murals in restaurants are on par with the food in museums.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 4/12/16 6:54 AM, Dran Draggore wrote:

AI> I've been thinking about that too. I ran FD/FE/RA years ago in dos and
AI> os/2 so I know why you all are reluctant to be done with it. I wonder

if

AI> Tobias Burchhardt still has the source and would be interested in

updating

AI> it, or releasing the source under the gpl licence?

Nice try, but the guy still demands a properly completed registration form before issuing a key.

And there isn't anything wrong with that for something that is now free
to use and register. I took the time to fill out my form and get it
sent to him and got my registration key in email shortly thereafter.
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
* Origin: http://finathon.org/neptunes-lair-bbs - Help Save Our O (1:116/18)

On 04/12/16, Dran Draggore said the following...

Nice try, but the guy still demands a properly completed registration
form before issuing a key.

A small price to pay I would say. He needs your BBS info to generate the key. Years ago I sent one in along with a few $. Well worth the price I paid.

Fidonet has changed since then though, in an unexpected way. It was necessary then to strip seen-bys when crossing zones but now it is not. Nobody saw that coming so the software is hardwired to do that.

I support a new version of FE that doesn't do that for nodes who connect
across zones. It is Tobias's software though and it's up to him how/when/if that happens.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A10 (Linux)
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)