• Import/Export

    From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10.1 to Wilfred van Velzin on Thursday, August 17, 2017 19:49:38
    Hello Wilfred,

    So the Import/Export function of backbone.na will only import the descriptions of already setup areas?

    I have a backbone.na I exported from my BBS, which has:

    <ECHOTAG> <DESCRIPTION>

    ..about 160+ entries. When I try to import it in FConfigW32, it says "1 descriptions imported". Since I already have FMAIL_HELP setup in fconfig, it seems it only imports that description?

    areas.bbs worked as expected, but it doesn't seem areas can actually be imported via backbone.na, which is a little odd.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzin on Thursday, August 17, 2017 21:19:24
    Hello Nicholas,

    On Thu Aug 17 2017 19:49:38, Nicholas Boel wrote to Wilfred van Velzin:

    areas.bbs worked as expected

    Let me add to this.. areas.bbs imported echotags and exports. However, it didn't import the JAM MB location/filename for me. Then I had to use the backbone.na I had to import descriptions only.

    I hope I can import the location/filename at some point, otherwise I'll have to
    do a lot of manual intervention. ;)

    And yes, I did convert the paths to Windows structure in areas.bbs before attempting to import.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/384 to Nicholas Boel on Friday, August 18, 2017 12:49:20
    Hi! Nick,

    On 17 Aug 17 21:19, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzin:

    And yes, I did convert the paths to Windows structure in areas.bbs
    before attempting to import.

    With mine I didn't have to, as exported from CM II/lnx. I edited-out the JAM netmail, badmail & dupes areas first. Roughly 168 areas imported complete with
    the proper Linux paths!

    Based on your prompting, I've just imported 3x backbone.na type files and got 116 area descriptions. I may go back to aiming GoldEd at the FMail directory for area definitions, rather than the hoop-jumpimg with Areas.Bbs & Backbone.Na, etc. Thank you.

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    ... In memory of Werner Hartenstein & RMS Laconia - 15 September 1942.
    --- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
    * Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10.1 to Paul Quinn on Thursday, August 17, 2017 22:02:35
    Hello Paul,

    Fri Aug 18 2017 12:49:20, you wrote to me:

    And yes, I did convert the paths to Windows structure in
    areas.bbs before attempting to import.

    With mine I didn't have to, as exported from CM II/lnx. I edited-out
    the JAM netmail, badmail & dupes areas first. Roughly 168 areas
    imported complete with the proper Linux paths!

    Not sure what happened then. I tried both Linux and Windows paths in my areas.bbs and while fconfig imported the areatags, it didn't have the JAM MB path/filename field filled in. ;(

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/384 to Nicholas Boel on Friday, August 18, 2017 15:11:00
    Hi! Nicholas,

    On Thu, 17 Aug 17, you wrote to me:

    Not sure what happened then. I tried both Linux and Windows
    paths in my areas.bbs and while fconfig imported the
    areatags, it didn't have the JAM MB path/filename field
    filled in. ;(

    64-bit Windows 10... going nowhere... fast?!? ;-)

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    --- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
    * Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464.112 to Nicholas Boel on Friday, August 18, 2017 09:26:07
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 17 Aug 17 19:49, Nicholas Boel wrote to Wilfred van Velzin:
    about: "Import/Export":

    So the Import/Export function of backbone.na will only import the descriptions of already setup areas?

    I have a backbone.na I exported from my BBS, which has:

    <ECHOTAG> <DESCRIPTION>

    ..about 160+ entries. When I try to import it in FConfigW32, it says "1 descriptions imported". Since I already have FMAIL_HELP setup in fconfig, it seems it only imports that description?

    areas.bbs worked as expected, but it doesn't seem areas can actually be imported via backbone.na, which is a little odd.

    It's not odd, it's what this function does and how it was designed (by the previous author). And it says so in the help line at the bottom of the window in FConfig if you select the function.

    I never used or touched the code for this function. But I might just try it to get my area descriptions in a better state...

    Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
    * Origin: point@work (2:280/464.112)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464.112 to Nicholas Boel on Friday, August 18, 2017 09:15:55
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 17 Aug 17 21:19, Nicholas Boel wrote to Wilfred van Velzin:
    about: "Import/Export":

    areas.bbs worked as expected

    Let me add to this.. areas.bbs imported echotags and exports. However, it didn't import the JAM MB location/filename for me. Then I had to use the backbone.na I had to import descriptions only.

    I'll have to look into this...

    I hope I can import the location/filename at some point, otherwise
    I'll have to do a lot of manual intervention. ;)

    And you don't want that if you don't have to! ;)

    And yes, I did convert the paths to Windows structure in areas.bbs
    before attempting to import.

    I don't know if that is of influence...

    Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
    * Origin: point@work (2:280/464.112)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464.112 to Nicholas Boel on Friday, August 18, 2017 09:18:44
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 17 Aug 17 22:02, Nicholas Boel wrote to Paul Quinn:
    about: "Import/Export":

    With mine I didn't have to, as exported from CM II/lnx. I edited-out
    the JAM netmail, badmail & dupes areas first. Roughly 168 areas
    imported complete with the proper Linux paths!

    Not sure what happened then. I tried both Linux and Windows paths in my areas.bbs and while fconfig imported the areatags, it didn't have the JAM MB path/filename field filled in. ;(

    Maybe your areas.bbs is (a little bit) different from Pauls? If you can both dump it in my inbound (change the name by adding your initials or something like that), and I'll have a look...

    Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
    * Origin: point@work (2:280/464.112)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384 to Wilfred van Velzen on Friday, August 18, 2017 17:53:49
    Hi! Wilfred,

    On 08/18/2017 05:18 PM, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    Maybe your areas.bbs is (a little bit) different from Pauls? If you can both dump it in my inbound (change the name by adding your initials or something like that), and I'll have a look...

    Done, about 10mins ago. Please look for 'QuinnsRockMareas.zip' in your (insecure?) inbound.
    ..
    Cheers,
    Paul.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
    * Origin: Quinn's Rock vBox - sunny side up on the bookcase (3:640/1384)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Paul Quinn on Friday, August 18, 2017 10:32:47
    Hi Paul,

    On 2017-08-18 17:53:49, you wrote to me:

    Maybe your areas.bbs is (a little bit) different from Pauls? If you
    can both dump it in my inbound (change the name by adding your
    initials or something like that), and I'll have a look...

    Done, about 10mins ago. Please look for 'QuinnsRockMareas.zip' in your (insecure?) inbound.

    That's where I found it. Thanks!

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Friday, August 18, 2017 05:09:02

    On 2017 Aug 17 19:49:38, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzin:

    So the Import/Export function of backbone.na will only import the descriptions of already setup areas?

    that's all most mail tossers ever did with it... the idea was solely to have consistent descriptions of the message areas across all BBSes... definitely not
    to build one's message base configuration as has been done by some few in the last decade or so... that's just crazy... autoadd is the way to go so that areas are added only when traffic in them starts flowing ;) ;) ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Now that's fine and dandy.... if you're rich and white.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10.1 to Paul Quinn on Friday, August 18, 2017 13:36:58
    Hello Paul,

    Fri Aug 18 2017 15:11:00, you wrote to me:

    Not sure what happened then. I tried both Linux and Windows
    paths in my areas.bbs and while fconfig imported the
    areatags, it didn't have the JAM MB path/filename field
    filled in. ;(

    64-bit Windows 10... going nowhere... fast?!? ;-)

    It was free, so I can't complain. And I can't blame Microsoft for not keeping backwards compatibility for software created in the 80s-90s either.

    Then again, who knows if it's even related to the version of Windows or not.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10.1 to Wilfred van Velzen on Friday, August 18, 2017 13:45:16
    Hello Wilfred,

    Fri Aug 18 2017 09:26:07, you wrote to me:

    It's not odd, it's what this function does and how it was designed (by
    the previous author). And it says so in the help line at the bottom of
    the window in FConfig if you select the function.

    Ok. Just figured it would (or at least *should*) import the echotags with the descriptions. At least that's what most other software I've used does. No need for areas.bbs unless you're importing links.

    I never used or touched the code for this function. But I might just
    try it to get my area descriptions in a better state...

    It would be nice, but obviously it already works as it was originally intended.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10.1 to Wilfred van Velzen on Friday, August 18, 2017 13:46:55
    Hello Wilfred,

    Fri Aug 18 2017 09:15:55, you wrote to me:

    areas.bbs worked as expected

    Let me add to this.. areas.bbs imported echotags and exports.
    However, it didn't import the JAM MB location/filename for me.
    Then I had to use the backbone.na I had to import descriptions
    only.

    I'll have to look into this...

    Ok.

    I hope I can import the location/filename at some point,
    otherwise I'll have to do a lot of manual intervention. ;)

    And you don't want that if you don't have to! ;)

    Exactly. Just added all my other echos to Golded as well as FMail, just no JAM MB location/filename, so it currently doesn't work. I'm slowly adding them in manually but haven't copied over any updated config yet.

    And yes, I did convert the paths to Windows structure in
    areas.bbs before attempting to import.

    I don't know if that is of influence...

    I mentioned in a later post I tried both Linux and Windows paths with no luck.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10.1 to Wilfred van Velzen on Friday, August 18, 2017 14:19:12
    Hello Wilfred,

    Fri Aug 18 2017 09:18:44, you wrote to me:

    Not sure what happened then. I tried both Linux and Windows paths
    in my areas.bbs and while fconfig imported the areatags, it
    didn't have the JAM MB path/filename field filled in. ;(

    Maybe your areas.bbs is (a little bit) different from Pauls? If you
    can both dump it in my inbound (change the name by adding your
    initials or something like that), and I'll have a look...

    For the record, I've tried uppercase and lowercase filename "areas.bbs vs AREAS.BBS", and both Windows and Linux paths The one that's in your inbound is Linux paths, which can easily be copy/replaced to Windows format.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10.1 to mark lewis on Friday, August 18, 2017 14:21:48
    Hello mark,

    Fri Aug 18 2017 05:09:02, you wrote to me:

    that's all most mail tossers ever did with it... the idea was solely
    to have consistent descriptions of the message areas across all
    BBSes... definitely not to build one's message base configuration as
    has been done by some few in the last decade or so... that's just
    crazy... autoadd is the way to go so that areas are added only when traffic in them starts flowing ;) ;) ;)

    Yeah ok. But more like "some everything in the last decade or so". Anything I've used with FTN has imported both the echotag and description. *shrug*

    Just as well, at some point the areas.bbs format changed from the old RA MSG format to not include paths as well.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Friday, August 18, 2017 21:55:43
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-08-18 13:36:58, you wrote to Paul Quinn:

    64-bit Windows 10... going nowhere... fast?!? ;-)

    It was free, so I can't complain. And I can't blame Microsoft for not keeping backwards compatibility for software created in the 80s-90s
    either.

    FConfigW32.exe is a freshly compiled Win32 executable. Maybe some parts of the source are a decenia or more old, but that's probably also true about the Windows source code! ;)

    Then again, who knows if it's even related to the version of Windows
    or not.

    I doubt that too...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Friday, August 18, 2017 21:58:14
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-08-18 13:45:16, you wrote to me:

    It's not odd, it's what this function does and how it was designed
    (by the previous author). And it says so in the help line at the
    bottom of the window in FConfig if you select the function.

    Ok. Just figured it would (or at least *should*) import the echotags with the descriptions. At least that's what most other software I've used does. No need for areas.bbs unless you're importing links.

    That would be a different kind of function...


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Friday, August 18, 2017 22:00:09
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-08-18 14:19:12, you wrote to me:

    Maybe your areas.bbs is (a little bit) different from Pauls? If you
    can both dump it in my inbound (change the name by adding your
    initials or something like that), and I'll have a look...

    For the record, I've tried uppercase and lowercase filename "areas.bbs vs AREAS.BBS",

    That shouldn't matter. FConfig is still a windows program! ;)

    and both Windows and Linux paths The one that's in your inbound is
    Linux paths, which can easily be copy/replaced to Windows format.

    I'll have a look...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Friday, August 18, 2017 22:27:12
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-08-18 22:00:09, I wrote to you:

    and both Windows and Linux paths The one that's in your inbound is
    Linux paths, which can easily be copy/replaced to Windows format.

    I'll have a look...

    Yours and Pauls are slightly different in format. Yours is different enough to not be correctly processed by the import function of FConfig.
    FConfig expects lines defining a Jam area to start with a '!' character followed directly by the filename. If there's no '!' character as the first character on the line, it reads it as a hudson message base area, where the first field is the board number.
    So you should be able to edit your file to get it imported by FConfig.
    One other quirk to consider: it ignores the first line of the file.

    I did a little google search for '"areas.bbs" format'. I didn't find much, but what I found suggests that every piece of software using it, has it's own ideas
    about the little details.

    The golded document: goldref.txt, says this about it:

    AreasBBS

    GoldED is can handle a wide variety of AREAS.BBS type files. It
    can read and distinguish between the old CONFMAIL style with paths
    for *.MSG areas, the Hudson/Goldbase style with board numbers, the
    Squish style with "$basename" and the JAM style with "!basename".

    So I guess FConfig supports Hudson and JAM style.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Friday, August 18, 2017 19:54:52

    On 2017 Aug 18 22:27:12, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    Yours and Pauls are slightly different in format. Yours is different
    enough
    to not be correctly processed by the import function of FConfig. FConfig expects lines defining a Jam area to start with a '!' character followed directly by the filename. If there's no '!' character as the first character on the line, it reads it as a hudson message base area, where
    the
    first field is the board number. So you should be able to edit your file
    to
    get it imported by FConfig. One other quirk to consider: it ignores the first line of the file.

    ignoring that first line isn't really a quirk... the first line(s) are generally comment lines... most of the time the contain information about who/what built the file... those comment lines start with a semicolon and there
    can be additional comment lines further inside the document but most processors
    will not keep them if they rewrite the file...

    what i'm trying to say is that the only lines that should be being skipped are those starting with a semicolon...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Charlie was a chemist;Charlie is no more;Charlie thought it wasH20, was H2SO4!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to mark lewis on Saturday, August 19, 2017 12:19:08
    Hi mark,

    On 2017-08-18 19:54:52, you wrote to me:

    Yours and Pauls are slightly different in format. Yours is different
    enough to not be correctly processed by the import function of
    FConfig. FConfig expects lines defining a Jam area to start with a '!'
    character followed directly by the filename. If there's no '!'
    character as the first character on the line, it reads it as a hudson
    message base area, where the first field is the board number. So you
    should be able to edit your file to get it imported by FConfig. One
    other quirk to consider: it ignores the first line of the file.

    ignoring that first line isn't really a quirk... the first line(s) are generally comment lines... most of the time the contain information about who/what built the file...

    Indeed "most of the time", because Pauls areas.bbs first line was a regular line with an area definition...

    those comment lines start with a semicolon and there can be additional comment lines further inside the document but most processors will not keep them if they rewrite the file...

    what i'm trying to say is that the only lines that should be being skipped are those starting with a semicolon...

    FConfig also skips lines starting with a semicolon...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Saturday, August 19, 2017 13:54:50

    On 2017 Aug 19 12:19:08, you wrote to me:

    Yours and Pauls are slightly different in format. Yours is different
    enough to not be correctly processed by the import function of
    FConfig. FConfig expects lines defining a Jam area to start with a
    '!' character followed directly by the filename. If there's no '!'
    character as the first character on the line, it reads it as a
    hudson message base area, where the first field is the board number.
    So you should be able to edit your file to get it imported by
    FConfig. One other quirk to consider: it ignores the first line of
    the file.

    ignoring that first line isn't really a quirk... the first line(s)
    are generally comment lines... most of the time the contain
    information about who/what built the file...

    Indeed "most of the time", because Pauls areas.bbs first line was a regular line with an area definition...

    yeah, that's why i said that AREAS.BBS processors should skip comment lines and
    not assume things :wink: :wink:

    those comment lines start with a semicolon and there can be
    additional comment lines further inside the document but most
    processors will not keep them if they rewrite the file...

    what i'm trying to say is that the only lines that should be being
    skipped are those starting with a semicolon...

    FConfig also skips lines starting with a semicolon...

    that's a GoodThing<tm> but it should not just blindly skip the first line... that's a BadThing<tm>... FConfig is breaking even at this point ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Who is General Failure and why's he reading my hard disk?
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to mark lewis on Saturday, August 19, 2017 22:48:08
    Hi mark,

    On 2017-08-19 13:54:50, you wrote to me:

    Indeed "most of the time", because Pauls areas.bbs first line was a
    regular line with an area definition...

    (I mixed up the two, it was the one from Nicolas)

    yeah, that's why i said that AREAS.BBS processors should skip comment lines and not assume things :wink: :wink:

    After I'd seen the source, I realised there is some room for improvenment! ;)

    FConfig also skips lines starting with a semicolon...

    that's a GoodThing<tm> but it should not just blindly skip the first line... that's a BadThing<tm>... FConfig is breaking even at this point ;)

    Indeed. It is a bit of luck that it reads the one from Paul, which starts with the following lines:

    ; Generated by CrashExport 1.0
    ; Sun Nov 13 11:39:21 2016

    Default origin ! Paul Quinn

    The ones created by FMail start with:

    2:280/464 ! Wilfred van Velzen
    ; Created by FConfig-W32-2.0.1.2 - Fri Aug 11 13:43:14 2017

    That's why it skips the first line...


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:56:32
    Hello Wilfred,

    On Fri Aug 18 2017 22:27:12, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    I'll have a look...

    Yours and Pauls are slightly different in format. Yours is different enough to not be correctly processed by the import function of
    FConfig. FConfig expects lines defining a Jam area to start with a '!' character followed directly by the filename. If there's no '!'
    character as the first character on the line, it reads it as a hudson message base area, where the first field is the board number. So you should be able to edit your file to get it imported by FConfig. One
    other quirk to consider: it ignores the first line of the file.

    Thanks. This all seemed to do the trick, including adding a comment at the top of the file since it's ignored.

    I did a little google search for '"areas.bbs" format'. I didn't find
    much, but what I found suggests that every piece of software using it,
    has it's own ideas about the little details.

    Exactly! For example, Synchronet doesn't use JAM or Hudson, so some other format was probably invented there too.

    The golded document: goldref.txt, says this about it:

    AreasBBS

    GoldED is can handle a wide variety of AREAS.BBS type
    files. It
    can read and distinguish between the old CONFMAIL style
    with paths
    for *.MSG areas, the Hudson/Goldbase style with board
    numbers, the
    Squish style with "$basename" and the JAM style with "!basename".

    While Golded may handle a wide variety for import, the only thing I could get it to export was what I gave to you. It didn't include any "!" even though every area defined in fidoconfig was set to JAM.

    So I guess FConfig supports Hudson and JAM style.

    Ok. Looks like I learned something new today! ;)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)