• 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....

    From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to All on Sunday, July 10, 2022 17:11:19
    Temp jobs are a blessing and a burden at the same time. I am looking for my next job for the year. I am submitting 3-5 applications a week so hopefully i don't go unemployed or living off savings for no more than 1 month.


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  • From seeLive@21:2/128 to Utopian Galt on Sunday, July 10, 2022 22:04:42
    On 10 Jul 2022, Utopian Galt said the following...
    Temp jobs are a blessing and a burden at the same time. I am looking for my next job for the year. I am submitting 3-5 applications a week so hopefully i don't go unemployed or living off savings for no more than
    1 month.

    Good luck, UG... I hope you find something you can enjoy as well...

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  • From Zip@21:1/202 to Utopian Galt on Monday, July 11, 2022 13:21:41
    Hello Utopian Galt!

    On 10 Jul 2022, Utopian Galt said the following...

    Temp jobs are a blessing and a burden at the same time. I am looking for my next job for the year. I am submitting 3-5 applications a week so hopefully i don't go unemployed or living off savings for no more than
    1 month.

    Good luck with the job hunting! Hoping you'll find something nice and interesting!

    Best regards
    Zip

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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Utopian Galt on Monday, July 11, 2022 11:11:07
    Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    By: Utopian Galt to All on Sun Jul 10 2022 05:11 pm

    Temp jobs are a blessing and a burden at the same time. I am looking for my next job for the year. I am submitting 3-5 applications a week so hopefully i don't go unemployed or living off savings for no more than 1 month.

    That can be difficult. :/ And I'd worry about some future employers seeing it as a bad sign if you've had a lot of short-term work at different companies on your resume.

    Nightfox
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  • From Greenlfc@21:2/150 to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 12, 2022 05:38:44
    On 11 Jul 2022, Nightfox said the following...

    Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    Temp jobs are a blessing and a burden at the same time. I am looking my next job for the year. I am submitting 3-5 applications a week so hopefully i don't go unemployed or living off savings for no more tha month.

    That can be difficult. :/ And I'd worry about some future employers seeing it as a bad sign if you've had a lot of short-term work at different companies on your resume.


    I had a friend who worked temp jobs with Microsoft contractors for nearly 20 years. Their "cool down" period, or whatever they called it, was obnoxious. Every year or two you had to take three months away from Microsoft which left these folks in a perpetual state of flux, since there was no guarantee that their job would still be there after the break.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 12, 2022 07:22:00
    Nightfox wrote to Utopian Galt <=-

    That can be difficult. :/ And I'd worry about some future employers seeing it as a bad sign if you've had a lot of short-term work at different companies on your resume.

    I think if you preface it by including temp/contract work under a comprehensive "self-employed" block on your resume, so instead of a handful
    of companies, you include a business name, the total block of time and something like "Provided network, operations and architecture services to emerging-state pre-funding startups and mature IT organizations"

    Paraphrasing my own resume there...

    You can get past the drone who's worried that you're a flight risk.

    He/She is really worried that a) they'll have to work to retain employees,
    and b) probably have a handful of short time stints on their own CV.

    I had a VP of IT neg me into a manager position (advertised as a manager/director) position partly criticizing my lack of stability in jobs
    -- I'd been at a job no less than 2 years on my resume, with the exception
    of one company that folded. The kicker was that he had a half-dozen 6-8
    month positions on his resume!

    I took the job, lasted close to 2 years before being "laid off" by his successor. He and I never got along, the company was on it's way down, I was
    a cost-cutting measure, and I had a letter of resignation in my folder when
    I went unknowingly to my separation meeting. I pocketed the letter and took the severance.

    They shut down 6 months later to be sold at a bargain-basement price to a company that collected similar damaged niche brands.

    I ended up taking a job that came by a recommendation of one of my BBS callers, who'd worked there and was leaving to go back to school. That
    company ended up being acquired and I worked at the parent company for close to 10 years.







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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Greenlfc on Tuesday, July 12, 2022 07:28:00
    Greenlfc wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I had a friend who worked temp jobs with Microsoft contractors for
    nearly 20 years. Their "cool down" period, or whatever they called it, was obnoxious. Every year or two you had to take three months away from Microsoft which left these folks in a perpetual state of flux, since
    there was no guarantee that their job would still be there after the break.

    Yeah, those are the hoops companies jump through to call a large portion of their workforce "independent contractors" and not employees with benefits. I worked at a company that capped all ICs at 1 year employment.

    Our IT techs were all outsourced from a company that provided IT services,
    not personnel, so they were free to take on the benefit cost or the
    liability of classifying full-time employees as contractors.

    Independent, yet I need to be at the 8:30am stand-up meeting every tuesday
    and thursday?


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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Greenlfc on Tuesday, July 12, 2022 09:14:18
    Re: Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    By: Greenlfc to Nightfox on Tue Jul 12 2022 05:38 am

    I had a friend who worked temp jobs with Microsoft contractors for nearly 20 years. Their "cool down" period, or whatever they called it, was obnoxious. Every year or two you had to take three months away from Microsoft which left these folks in a perpetual state of flux, since there was no guarantee that their job would still be there after the break.

    Yeah, it can be tough that way with some companies. :/ I used to work at <well-known chip maker> before being laid off in 2019, and they did that a lot with contractors. I somehow was one of the ones that my team decided to hire as an actual company employee - but even then, they can lay off employees at any time, and there are still rules that you can't come back for a period of time. I even heard that company has a limit to the number of times you can come back, even if it wasn't your decision to leave (i.e., you had been laid off).

    I feel like there's generally no sense of loyalty in the industry anymore.

    Nightfox
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tuesday, July 12, 2022 09:17:15
    Re: Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Jul 12 2022 07:22 am

    That can be difficult. :/ And I'd worry about some future employers
    seeing it as a bad sign if you've had a lot of short-term work at
    different companies on your resume.

    I think if you preface it by including temp/contract work under a comprehensive "self-employed" block on your resume, so instead of a handful of companies, you include a business name, the total block of time and something like "Provided network, operations and architecture services to emerging-state pre-funding startups and mature IT organizations"

    That's not a bad idea. I like that.

    I ended up taking a job that came by a recommendation of one of my BBS callers, who'd worked there and was leaving to go back to school. That company ended up being acquired and I worked at the parent company for close to 10 years.

    That's cool that you got a job through a BBS caller. :)

    Nightfox
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  • From 2twisty@21:3/166 to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 12, 2022 10:15:35
    That can be difficult. :/ And I'd worry about some future employers seeing it as a bad sign if you've had a lot of short-term work at different companies on your resume.

    Depends on the nature of the work. If you were hired to be the head of a department and left quickly, that could be bad. If you were hired to redevelop a web site, maybe not.

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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to Utopian Galt on Tuesday, July 12, 2022 22:39:13
    Temp jobs are a blessing and a burden at the same time. I am looking for my next job for the year. I am submitting 3-5 applications a week so hopefully i don't go unemployed or living off savings for no more than
    1 month.

    Damnit, man... I'm hurting currently, but I keep thinking that I'm better off than some- not meaing you... but...

    Damn; we all live so many lives. Some of us are rich. Some of us are poor - some of us are just ahead of the next. I wish we could all share the same happiness. Would you share your spare bedroom with me? No. You wouldn't. I'd share my crazy HUSTLE with you... I live a crazy life....

    We are all so different.
    And all so the same.

    :/



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  • From Margaerynne@21:2/138 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 08:13:41
    Re: Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Jul 12 2022 07:22 am

    I think if you preface it by including temp/contract work under a comprehensive "self-employed" block on your
    resume, so instead of a handful
    of companies, you include a business name, the total block of time and something like "Provided network, operations
    and architecture services to emerging-state pre-funding startups and mature IT organizations"

    It's insane that you have to do that dance in the first place.

    I wish I could ask "If I offered your business a 40% revenue increase, and all you had to do was have your least-favorite employee killed, would you do it?"

    I'll bet you that deep down most of them would answer yes. They do it just about every day with layoffs and firings.


    So, in that case, why it held against us for going to a place that allows us to better provide for our family? Why is leaving a job for a raise and a better environment considered 'disloyal'?
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Margaerynne on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 09:26:31
    Re: Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    By: Margaerynne to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jul 13 2022 08:13 am

    So, in that case, why it held against us for going to a place that allows us to better provide for our family? Why is leaving a job for a raise and a better environment considered 'disloyal'?

    I guess technically speaking, it could be seen as disloyal to tha company for an employee to leave. But it seems to me there is no loyalty either way anymore. Companies can lay off employees on a whim, and employees can leave at any time. The law also allows this in many places (at-will employement).

    Nightfox
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  • From ogg@21:2/147 to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 12:22:20
    On 13 Jul 2022, Nightfox said the following...

    Re: Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    By: Margaerynne to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jul 13 2022 08:13 am

    So, in that case, why it held against us for going to a place that al us to better provide for our family? Why is leaving a job for a raise a better environment considered 'disloyal'?

    I guess technically speaking, it could be seen as disloyal to tha
    company for an employee to leave. But it seems to me there is no
    loyalty either way anymore. Companies can lay off employees on a whim,
    and employees can leave at any time. The law also allows this in many places (at-will employement).


    I suspect long term employees have a hard time understanding leaving a company. However, if you've ever been let go, you suddenly come to understand. Employees are now classified the same as computers or copy machines. The only thing different is there's no depreciation allowed on humans.

    ogg

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    Lufkin, TX
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  • From Margaerynne@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 12:53:01
    Re: Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    By: Nightfox to Margaerynne on Wed Jul 13 2022 09:26 am

    I guess technically speaking, it could be seen as disloyal to tha company for an employee to leave. But it seems to
    me there is no loyalty either way anymore. Companies can lay off employees on a whim, and employees can leave at any
    time. The law also allows this in many places (at-will employement).

    It's honestly a bummer, because it really does seem nice to be at a place for 20 years, know your coworkers, and feel a sense of belonging. Obviously that wasn't always the case -- I imagine "25+ years and a pension" was the exception
    far more than the norm -- but it seems like it used to be an ideal.

    By the time I hit the job market, it was already understood that you were expected to beg for a job, and your position
    was always unstable. Those who did stay would be rewarded with below-inflation raises, while those who left would see a sizeable pay bump. It sounds cynical, but it hasn't exactly been disproven in my experience.



    I could go on and on (we all could!), but it boils down to companies expecting loyalty while not internally promoting.
    None of the companies I've worked for have hired internally at rates worth sticking around for, while also shelling
    out for outside help. Or, god forbid, contractors.
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to ogg on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 11:04:43
    Re: Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    By: ogg to Nightfox on Wed Jul 13 2022 12:22 pm

    I suspect long term employees have a hard time understanding leaving a company. However, if you've ever been let go, you suddenly come to understand. Employees are now classified the same as computers or copy machines. The only thing different is there's no depreciation allowed on humans.

    I've even heard people refer to employees as "resources".

    Nightfox
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  • From nblade@21:3/170 to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 19:29:13

    I've even heard people refer to employees as "resources".


    Reminds me of a comic I once saw that said the following.

    "Our employees are our greatess asset< I sugguest we sell them!"\

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 16:37:40
    Re: Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    By: Nightfox to Margaerynne on Wed Jul 13 2022 09:26 am

    I guess technically speaking, it could be seen as disloyal to tha company for an employee to leave. But it seems to me there is no loyalty either way anymore. Companies can lay off employees on a whim, and employees can leave at any time. The law also allows this in many places (at-will employement).

    As my co-sysop used to say, "The company is not your friend".

    We worked in a couple of start-up companies, one of them approaching founder/cult status. Long hours, dinner brought in, lots of perks, all intended to maximize the time people spent at work. Social circles were all work people talking about work. Drinks after work were spent talking about work. People dated and married within the company.

    Then, came the dreaded PIVOT. They changed direction drastically and laid off a third of their staff, including splitting up a married couple. That must have made for some fun evenings afterwards.

    It's all about money, for them and you. You're there for as long you contribute to the company making a profit. Your commitment to them expires every payday.
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 16:42:29
    Re: Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    By: Nightfox to ogg on Wed Jul 13 2022 11:04 am

    I've even heard people refer to employees as "resources".

    I work in IT, and spent most of my years managing support teams. I refer to the employees we support as "customers", and would get strange looks from some of my teams.

    There was a feeling among some of the techs that the customers didn't have a choice, so my analogy didn't work. I'd ask them how they felt about going to the DMV[1], and would they want to model that experience?



    [1] Department of Motor Vehicles in the USA, well known for a lack of concern over the size of their lines and a lack of care by their employees.
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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to ogg on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 19:02:37
    I guess technically speaking, it could be seen as disloyal to tha company for an employee to leave. But it seems to me there is no loyalty either way anymore. Companies can lay off employees on a whim and employees can leave at any time. The law also allows this in man places (at-will employement).

    Completely agree. I fully thought I'd w0rk for one company, corporation or entity for 4o years... when it came time to find work, tho, I realized that was for my parents generation and not mine.

    I've done the same work for 25 years - but its been completely on my own... now, looking back, I think America has been designed this way for some time. There was something to be said about a pension and retirement.
    :P



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  • From TALIADON@21:3/138 to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, July 14, 2022 13:03:25
    It's all about money, for them and you. You're there for as long you contribute to the company making a profit. Your commitment to them
    expires every payday.

    I've never quite seen this so succinctly put; there's absolutely no fat on this statement at all - just the lean truth.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Margaerynne on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 07:41:00
    Margaerynne wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    It's insane that you have to do that dance in the first place.

    Karma is a bitch. Everyone I've run into that ran people under the bus "for the company" ended up getting run over by the bus in the end.





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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 07:50:00
    Nightfox wrote to Greenlfc <=-

    Yeah, it can be tough that way with some companies. :/ I used to work
    at <well-known chip maker> before being laid off in 2019, and they did that a lot with contractors. I somehow was one of the ones that my
    team decided to hire as an actual company employee - but even then,
    they can lay off employees at any time

    An ex-sysop I know worked for Yahoo! in the 2000s, I believe he worked in
    QA. If memory serves, he'd been laid off with severance multiple times. I suppose it made sense to the bean counters.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to 2twisty on Wednesday, July 13, 2022 07:57:00
    2twisty wrote to Nightfox <=-

    That can be difficult. :/ And I'd worry about some future employers seeing it as a bad sign if you've had a lot of short-term work at different companies on your resume.

    Depends on the nature of the work. If you were hired to be the head of
    a department and left quickly, that could be bad. If you were hired to redevelop a web site, maybe not.

    The cynical side thinks of the manager who isn't skilled at retaining employees and takes leaving personally - because it'll mean more work for them. I've had a couple of those.

    That manager was typically great at managing up, not so much with dealing
    with the people underneath him or her.

    I've managed technology support teams, and I've appreciated both the career people who are happy doing the same thing every day, and people that I've known were destined for bigger things. I've had the former who had 5+ years experience in a mid-level role, but had built relationships with their
    users and did the job well, and the latter moved on to highly technical
    roles.

    The nice thing was that those people moved onto roles in the company I
    worked for, meaning I had someone I could reach out to when we needed to
    work together on something.





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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, July 14, 2022 08:52:25
    Re: Re: 3.5 weeks to being laid off again....
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Wed Jul 13 2022 07:50 am

    An ex-sysop I know worked for Yahoo! in the 2000s, I believe he worked in QA. If memory serves, he'd been laid off with severance multiple times. I suppose it made sense to the bean counters.

    :/
    At the place where I worked at when I was laid off last, I heard they had a rule where if you leave, you can only return to the company twice, even if leaving was not your choice (i.e. you had been laid off).

    Nightfox
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