• FTN to Telegram

    From Pasquale Monti@2:335/370 to All on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 23:32:06
    Hello All!

    I believe that a way for the future of FIDONET to follow could be a geteway to telegram.
    Has no one ever thought about developing it?

    Young people use Telegram as we (al least I) used FIDONET, having a gateway could open new opportunities to the movement FIDONET!

    What do you think aout it?




    Pasquale

    --- - ITBNET BBS http://bbs.itbnet.eu
    * Origin: Tenta, ritenta che alla fine riesci ! (2:335/370)
  • From Richard Falken@1:123/115 to Pasquale Monti on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 17:54:24
    Re: FTN to Telegram
    By: Pasquale Monti to All on Wed Jul 29 2020 11:32 pm

    Hello All!

    I believe that a way for the future of FIDONET to follow could be a geteway to telegram.
    Has no one ever thought about developing it?

    Young people use Telegram as we (al least I) used FIDONET, having a gateway could open new opportuniti
    to the movement FIDONET!

    What do you think aout it?




    Pasquale

    I think instant messaging scratches a different itch than FidoNET and othernets do, honestly.

    Information in instant messengers is highly volatile. Lots of very short messages flying by at light
    speed. Compare that with Fido, which people uses for elaborated responses.

    I keep hearing about the migration from traditional media to instant messengers... you'd be surpriseed
    how worried web forum users and administrators are. However, they are in the same boat. You can't do in
    an instant messenger what you do on a forum, and viceversa.

    You may as well try to gateway Fido to IRC :-P

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Richard Falken on Thursday, July 30, 2020 12:03:00
    On 07-29-20 17:54, Richard Falken wrote to Pasquale Monti <=-

    I think instant messaging scratches a different itch than FidoNET and othernets do, honestly.

    I agree, I certainly use FTN and Telegram quite differently. Telegram and IRC, or Telegram and BBS chat would be a better match. Similarly, BBS messaging and Usenet have got along falrly well for years, and in theory, BBSs and web forums are also another potential match.


    ... Should I weed the lawn or say it's a garden?
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Pasquale Monti on Thursday, July 30, 2020 08:47:33
    Hi Pasquale,

    On 2020-07-29 23:32:06, you wrote to All:

    I believe that a way for the future of FIDONET to follow could be a geteway to telegram. Has no one ever thought about developing it?

    Young people use Telegram as we (al least I) used FIDONET, having a gateway
    could open new opportunities to the movement FIDONET!

    What do you think aout it?

    There's a Telegram group 'fidonet.online' (mainly occupied by Russians). That has (or had) a gate to a Russian echomail area (I don't know if it is still active)...

    But I don't agree with you that it will attract more (young) people to fidonet. Maybe a few outsiders will join such a group. But it won't get them to "join" fidonet, as a node/point/bbs-user. Maybe they remain active in the Telegram fidonet group, but that isn't a fidonet participant.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Pasquale Monti on Sunday, August 02, 2020 02:15:00
    Hello Pasquale!

    ** On Wednesday 29.07.20 - 23:32, Pasquale Monti wrote to All:

    I believe that a way for the future of FIDONET to follow could be a geteway to telegram. Has no one ever thought about developing it?

    Young people use Telegram as we (al least I) used FIDONET, having a gateway could open new opportunities to the movement FIDONET!

    What do you think aout it?

    Do you mean something that will post echomail messages to equivalent subgroups in a Telegram account and visa versa? Who controls the said Telegram account? What happens to the main account when someone chooses to nolonger maintain it or dies? It sounds like Telegram is centralized and
    not a good model for fidonet to work with.

    Also, wouldn't the Telegram version be akin to some of the existing
    fidonet discussion groups on Facebook? I don't see the efficacy of having
    a fidonet group on Facebook. I found one group, purportedly around 1000 members. It just looks like a weak attempt to have a "club" for fidonet sysops or ex members.

    At best, places like Facebook and Telegram sound more like fan-pages.
    And, they are a completely alternative environment from the existing FTN method of doing things.

    HOWEVER, if you think there is potential to disseminate interest about FTN
    + bbses + bbsing amongst your Telegram pals.. go for it, and send some
    people here! <g>


    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sunday, August 02, 2020 02:48:00
    Hello Wilfred!

    ** On Thursday 30.07.20 - 08:47, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Pasquale Monti:

    Young people use Telegram as we (al least I) used FIDONET, having a
    gateway could open new opportunities to the movement FIDONET!

    There's a Telegram group 'fidonet.online' (mainly occupied by
    Russians).

    Is it this one:

    http://pics.rsh.ru/img/telegram-fidonet-online_xq170w76.jpg

    It is interesting that it boasts being "the Next FTN generation".

    What does it mean by that?


    That has (or had) a gate to a Russian echomail area (I don't know if
    it is still active)...

    Did the gate work well? Does anyone know what happend?


    But I don't agree with you that it will attract more (young) people
    to fidonet. Maybe a few outsiders will join such a group. But it
    won't get them to "join" fidonet, as a node/point/bbs-user. Maybe
    they remain active in the Telegram fidonet group, but that isn't a fidonet participant.

    From one point of view, Fidonet or rather FTN, is all the bells and
    whistles of Origin lines, taglines, kludges, distinctive quoting style,
    etc.. What does a quoted message on Telegram look like?

    But maybe if fidonet or FTN can redefine itself and embrace the new
    messaging technologies and build bridges or gateways to them, then participating in fidonet can look different and provide doorways for
    people who would rather not bother with ftelnet/telnet or direct
    memberships on a bbs.

    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Sunday, August 02, 2020 18:18:48
    Hi August,

    On 2020-08-02 02:48:00, you wrote to me:

    Young people use Telegram as we (al least I) used FIDONET, having a
    gateway could open new opportunities to the movement FIDONET!

    There's a Telegram group 'fidonet.online' (mainly occupied by
    Russians).

    Is it this one:

    http://pics.rsh.ru/img/telegram-fidonet-online_xq170w76.jpg

    Yes.

    It is interesting that it boasts being "the Next FTN generation".

    What does it mean by that?

    I don't know. You will have to ask. ;)

    That has (or had) a gate to a Russian echomail area (I don't know if
    it is still active)...

    Did the gate work well? Does anyone know what happend?

    I didn't really pay attention, I found it just anoying. ;)

    But I don't agree with you that it will attract more (young) people
    to fidonet. Maybe a few outsiders will join such a group. But it
    won't get them to "join" fidonet, as a node/point/bbs-user. Maybe
    they remain active in the Telegram fidonet group, but that isn't a
    fidonet participant.

    From one point of view, Fidonet or rather FTN, is all the bells and whistles of Origin lines, taglines, kludges, distinctive quoting style, etc.. What does a quoted message on Telegram look like?

    But maybe if fidonet or FTN can redefine itself and embrace the new messaging technologies and build bridges or gateways to them, then participating in fidonet can look different and provide doorways for people who would rather not bother with ftelnet/telnet or direct memberships on a bbs.

    Then it wouldn't be fidonet, but just another group on those messaging technologies...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Monday, August 03, 2020 09:54:56
    Hi August,

    On 2020-08-02 02:48:00, you wrote to me:

    That has (or had) a gate to a Russian echomail area (I don't know if
    it is still active)...

    Did the gate work well? Does anyone know what happend?

    I just noticed it is still active as "Fido2telebot" user on that list. It's not clear which area it's gating...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Monday, August 03, 2020 18:36:19
    On 03/08/2020 3:54 a.m., Wilfred van Velzen : August Abolins wrote:

    WvV>>> That has (or had) a gate to a Russian echomail area (I don't know if
    WvV>>> it is still active)...

    AA>> Did the gate work well? Does anyone know what happend?


    I just noticed it is still active as "Fido2telebot" user on
    that list. It's not clear which area it's gating...

    I found something too. Looks like an independent experiment at 2:460/58 in special echotag/areas named RU.FIDONET.areatag

    Translated from the Russian, with my addition of [kludge?], I got this:

    "To post to the telegram destination you "write a netmail message to 2:460/58 and the name Fido2telebot, In the subj field we indicate your name in the telegram. In each gated message from you, the @RealName treasure [kludge?] will be added from the telegram. "

    So.. the To field identifies the group/area at Telegram. And the Subj field is used to identify the sender. Doesn't sound too elegant if the gate can't simply
    use the From field to identify the sender.

    I haven't found info how they steer those netmails to specific areas in the RU.FIDONET.areatag structure.

    --- TB(Stealth)/Win7
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Monday, August 03, 2020 18:18:42
    Hi August,

    On 2020-08-03 18:36:19, you wrote to me:

    I just noticed it is still active as "Fido2telebot" user on
    that list. It's not clear which area it's gating...

    I found something too. Looks like an independent experiment at 2:460/58 in
    special echotag/areas named RU.FIDONET.areatag

    Translated from the Russian, with my addition of [kludge?], I got this:

    "To post to the telegram destination you "write a netmail message to 2:460/58 and the name Fido2telebot, In the subj field we indicate your name
    in the telegram. In each gated message from you, the @RealName treasure [kludge?] will be added from the telegram. "

    So.. the To field identifies the group/area at Telegram.

    Don't think so, because it says it should contain "Fido2telebot".

    And the Subj field is used to identify the sender.

    On the Telegram side. So I think it could be anything (i.e. a regular Subject) in the netmail.

    Doesn't sound too elegant if the gate can't simply use the From field
    to identify the sender.

    I haven't found info how they steer those netmails to specific areas in the
    RU.FIDONET.areatag structure.

    I did a test, and got this reply:

    From : Fido2TeleBOT 2:460/58 2020-08-03 19:14:06
    To : Wilfred van Velzen 2:280/464 2020-08-03 18:16:01
    Subj : telegramm gate 컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴 @INTL 2:280/464 2:460/58
    @MSGID: 2:460/58 5f2837cf
    @TID: hpt/lnx 1.9.0-cur 2020-04-15
    Hi Wilfred van Velzen,

    I've got Youre mesage. All done.

    @Via 2:460/58 @20200803.161408.UTC hpt/lnx 1.9.0-cur 2020-04-15
    ...

    But I didn't see anything pop up in the Telegram fidonet.online group. So I don't know where it went...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Monday, August 03, 2020 20:20:01
    On 03/08/2020 12:18 p.m., Wilfred van Velzen : August Abolins wrote:

    "To post to the telegram destination you "write a netmail
    message to 2:460/58 and the name Fido2telebot, In the subj
    field we indicate your name in the telegram. In each gated
    message from you, the @RealName treasure [kludge?] will be
    added from the telegram. "


    And the Subj field is used to identify the sender.

    On the Telegram side. So I think it could be anything (i.e. a
    regular Subject) in the netmail.

    Ah.. "In the subj field *we* indicate your name.."


    I haven't found info how they steer those netmails to specific
    areas in the RU.FIDONET. areatag structure.


    I did a test, and got this reply:

    From : Fido2TeleBOT 2:460/58 2020-08-03 19:14:06
    To : Wilfred van Velzen 2:280/464 2020-08-03 18:16:01
    Subj : telegramm gate
    ??????????????????????????????????????????????
    @INTL 2:280/464 2:460/58
    @MSGID: 2:460/58 5f2837cf
    @TID: hpt/lnx 1.9.0-cur 2020-04-15
    Hi Wilfred van Velzen,

    I've got Youre mesage. All done.

    @Via 2:460/58 @20200803.161408.UTC hpt/lnx 1.9.0-cur 2020-04-15
    ...
    Interesting. Maybe the destination is just ONE fido area at the fellow's BBS, for now.


    But I didn't see anything pop up in the Telegram
    fidonet.online group. So I don't know where it went...

    Keep us posted!

    It is an interesting experiment not unlike JAMnntp. It bridges people from different environments.

    I wonder what the part "the @RealName treasure will be added from the telegram" means.

    --- TB(Stealth)/Win7
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Monday, August 03, 2020 20:51:05
    Hi August,

    On 2020-08-03 20:20:01, you wrote to me:

    I did a test, and got this reply:

    From : Fido2TeleBOT 2:460/58 2020-08-03 19:14:06
    To : Wilfred van Velzen 2:280/464 2020-08-03 18:16:01
    Subj : telegramm gate
    ??????????????????????????????????????????????
    @INTL 2:280/464 2:460/58
    @MSGID: 2:460/58 5f2837cf
    @TID: hpt/lnx 1.9.0-cur 2020-04-15
    Hi Wilfred van Velzen,

    I've got Youre mesage. All done.

    @Via 2:460/58 @20200803.161408.UTC hpt/lnx 1.9.0-cur 2020-04-15
    ...
    Interesting. Maybe the destination is just ONE fido area at the fellow's BBS, for now.

    That doesn't make any sense for a fido to telegram bot...

    But I didn't see anything pop up in the Telegram
    fidonet.online group. So I don't know where it went...

    Keep us posted!

    Nothing. So I didn't do it right, or it's not what we are expecting it to be... ;0

    It is an interesting experiment not unlike JAMnntp. It bridges people from different environments.

    Experimenting is one of the perks of FidoNet! ;)


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Wilfred van Velzen on Monday, August 03, 2020 23:33:00
    Hello Wilfred!

    ** On Monday 03.08.20 - 20:51, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to August Abolins:

    Interesting. Maybe the destination is just ONE fido area at the
    fellow's BBS, for now.

    That doesn't make any sense for a fido to telegram bot...

    If there is more than one destination area, how do you direct your netmail post to a specific one?


    But I didn't see anything pop up in the Telegram
    fidonet.online group. So I don't know where it went...

    Keep us posted!

    Nothing. So I didn't do it right, or it's not what we are expecting it
    to be... ;0

    Yes.. there must be something more to the netmail-to-telegram feature that
    we are not aware of.

    How would you be notified of a reply to your post? Maybe you have to have the fido feed from the host bbs. That makes the most sense.


    It is an interesting experiment not unlike JAMnntp. It bridges people
    from different environments.

    Experimenting is one of the perks of FidoNet! ;)

    Maybe we can get Stas Mishchenkov at 2:460/58 to explain his system for
    us.


    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Tuesday, August 04, 2020 08:52:13
    Hi August,

    On 2020-08-03 23:33:00, you wrote to me:

    Interesting. Maybe the destination is just ONE fido area at the
    fellow's BBS, for now.

    That doesn't make any sense for a fido to telegram bot...

    If there is more than one destination area, how do you direct your
    netmail post to a specific one?

    If there is, it's not clear...

    Nothing. So I didn't do it right, or it's not what we are expecting
    it to be... ;0

    Yes.. there must be something more to the netmail-to-telegram feature
    that we are not aware of.

    How would you be notified of a reply to your post? Maybe you have to
    have the fido feed from the host bbs. That makes the most sense.

    Maybe... But than you wouldn't need the gateway. Because you already see every message in the echomail area.

    It is an interesting experiment not unlike JAMnntp. It bridges
    people from different environments.

    Experimenting is one of the perks of FidoNet! ;)

    Maybe we can get Stas Mishchenkov at 2:460/58 to explain his system for us.

    I've already asked him if there is a "%HELP" for the bot, in netmail...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thursday, August 06, 2020 21:07:00
    Hello Wilfred!

    ** On Tuesday 04.08.20 - 08:52, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to August Abolins:

    Experimenting is one of the perks of FidoNet! ;)

    Maybe we can get Stas Mishchenkov at 2:460/58 to explain his system for
    us.

    I've already asked him if there is a "%HELP" for the bot, in netmail...

    I am curious to understand what "the Next FTN generation" means.



    There's another fidonet presence here: https://telegram.me/fidonet ....with a grand total of 21 members.




    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Friday, August 07, 2020 08:27:38
    Hi August,

    On 2020-08-06 21:07:00, you wrote to me:

    Maybe we can get Stas Mishchenkov at 2:460/58 to explain his system
    for us.

    I've already asked him if there is a "%HELP" for the bot, in
    netmail...

    He explained a bit. The bot is a gate between a couple of Fidonet echomail areas and corresponding Telegram groups. It's not clear to me what the netmail interface of the bot does, it's not a gateway as far as I understand.

    I am curious to understand what "the Next FTN generation" means.

    You will have to ask him yourself. ;)

    There's another fidonet presence here: https://telegram.me/fidonet ....with a grand total of 21 members.

    It's seems to be occupied by a subset of (mostly) Russians, that are also in the https://t.me/fidonet_online Telegram group. Language is also Russian, but it seems to be less active than the other group...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sunday, August 09, 2020 10:37:00
    Hello Wilfred!

    ** On Friday 07.08.20 - 08:27, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to August Abolins:

    I am curious to understand what "the Next FTN generation" means.

    You will have to ask him yourself. ;)

    I have! But it seems that we may have the wrong guy w.r.t the Telegram destination that used that slogan

    Stay tuned. Stas has indicated interest to drop by and explain things.

    It sounds like he has identified a need to link traditional Telegram users (mobile, and far from his local region) with dialup users to echos on his bbs.

    It doesn't sound too far from the smartphone user-base scenario that has
    been discussed here. Telegram already provides the API and the iOS/
    Android apps, and Stas has learned to leverage it to work with echomail.


    There's another fidonet presence here: https://telegram.me/fidonet
    ....with a grand total of 21 members.

    It's seems to be occupied by a subset of (mostly) Russians, that are
    also in the https://t.me/fidonet_online Telegram group. Language is also Russian, but it seems to be less active than the other group...

    Some of the aspects of Telegram are intriguing: privacy within a group, unsending (deleting messages), voice chat, message search, msg tracing/ threading, file sharing, end-to-end encryption, secret chats, ..to name a few.

    For "echomail" all the secret stuff is nullified, but bridging mobile
    users to bbs users seems to be the main purpose.


    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sunday, August 09, 2020 11:27:00
    Hello Wilfred!

    ** On Sunday 02.08.20 - 18:18, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to August Abolins:

    Is it this one:

    http://pics.rsh.ru/img/telegram-fidonet-online_xq170w76.jpg

    Yes.

    [snip]

    But maybe if fidonet or FTN can redefine itself and embrace the new
    messaging technologies and build bridges or gateways to them, then
    participating in fidonet can look different and provide doorways for
    people who would rather not bother with ftelnet/telnet or direct
    memberships on a bbs.

    Then it wouldn't be fidonet, but just another group on those
    messaging technologies...

    Maybe we're biased because highspeed internet is ubiquitous for us. I
    noticed that a couple of Stas' nodelist entries indicate dialup. He's
    trying to bridge the wider mobile user to the dialup user? But, as a consequence he has discovered a way to bring fidonet to a smartphone user
    - which is what *was* being agonized about here.

    Is Telegram the only techology that offers a free API/protocol/schema for this sort of thing?

    I lieu of waiting for the ideal programmer to take up the gauntlet of reaching the smartphone crowd with a new API that can talk to BBSes, maybe
    a Telegram gateway could work with the ready-made Telegram code.


    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Monday, August 10, 2020 13:35:46
    Hi August,

    On 2020-08-09 11:27:00, you wrote to me:

    Is Telegram the only techology that offers a free API/protocol/schema
    for this sort of thing?

    I haven't looked into it, but my guess is that most of them offer some kind of api for automated messages...

    I lieu of waiting for the ideal programmer to take up the gauntlet of reaching the smartphone crowd with a new API that can talk to BBSes, maybe
    a Telegram gateway could work with the ready-made Telegram code.

    What do you mean? Stass is already running such a gateway, so...?

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Wilfred van Velzen on Monday, August 10, 2020 09:17:00
    Hello Wilfred!

    ** On Monday 10.08.20 - 13:35, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to August Abolins:

    I lieu of waiting for the ideal programmer to take up the gauntlet
    of reaching the smartphone crowd with a new API that can talk to
    BBSes, maybe a Telegram gateway could work with the ready-made
    Telegram code.

    What do you mean? Stass is already running such a gateway, so...?

    Yes.. Stas is demonstrating that his gateway works. He has the magic
    sauce to transcode FTN bits with Telegram bits. But would he share the
    sauce so that other sysops can adapt it to their BBSes?

    The Telegram option is not what I perceived that sysops were looking for.
    It sounded like sysops where hoping for app/smartphone interface that ties directly with their BBS software.

    But since Telegram provides an app + an api to utilize, a gateway could be
    an alternative method to get fidonet echos accessible to the smartphone
    user. Each sysop could employ a gateway for the echos they want to
    support directly. Otherwise, the system really just needs someone like Stas's system to do all the work?

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Monday, August 10, 2020 15:23:33
    Hi August,

    On 2020-08-10 09:17:00, you wrote to me:

    I lieu of waiting for the ideal programmer to take up the gauntlet
    of reaching the smartphone crowd with a new API that can talk to
    BBSes, maybe a Telegram gateway could work with the ready-made
    Telegram code.

    What do you mean? Stass is already running such a gateway, so...?

    Yes.. Stas is demonstrating that his gateway works. He has the magic sauce to transcode FTN bits with Telegram bits. But would he share the sauce so that other sysops can adapt it to their BBSes?

    Good question. ;)

    The Telegram option is not what I perceived that sysops were looking
    for. It sounded like sysops where hoping for app/smartphone interface
    that ties directly with their BBS software.

    Of course a more specific app could be more atractive.

    But since Telegram provides an app + an api to utilize, a gateway
    could be an alternative method to get fidonet echos accessible to the smartphone user. Each sysop could employ a gateway for the echos they want to support directly. Otherwise, the system really just needs
    someone like Stas's system to do all the work?

    More (redundant) gateways would be better of course, but not stricktly necessary. And it wouldn't matter for the Telegram user, as long as there is 1 working for his favorite echomail area. ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Pasquale Monti on Thursday, August 13, 2020 10:57:36
    Hi, Pasquale!

    29 ¿ε½ 20 23:32, Pasquale Monti -> All:

    I believe that a way for the future of FIDONET to follow could be a geteway to telegram. Has no one ever thought about developing it?

    Young people use Telegram as we (al least I) used FIDONET, having a gateway could open new opportunities to the movement FIDONET!

    What do you think aout it?

    Such a gate already exists and works. However, the moderators of Fido echo conferences are reluctant to give permission for gating in telegram.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Second try
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Thursday, August 13, 2020 10:58:10
    Hi, August!

    03 áóú 20 23:33, August Abolins -> Wilfred van Velzen:

    Interesting. Maybe the destination is just ONE fido area at the
    fellow's BBS, for now.

    That doesn't make any sense for a fido to telegram bot...

    If there is more than one destination area, how do you direct your netmail post to a specific one?

    For now netmail is restricted. But it can be translated too.

    Experimenting is one of the perks of FidoNet! ;)

    Maybe we can get Stas Mishchenkov at 2:460/58 to explain his system for us.

    Yes. You can. ;)

    There are fido echo areas and Telegram groups with names equal fido echo tags. When a message appears in the Telegram group, it is copied to the echo conference of the same name and vice versa, messages from the echo conference are copied to the same group. The files will be sent as URLs to the Fido part and UUE from Fido will be decoded and sent as files to the telegram.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Second try
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thursday, August 13, 2020 10:58:22
    Hi, Wilfred!

    04 áóú 20 08:52, Wilfred van Velzen -> August Abolins:

    Maybe we can get Stas Mishchenkov at 2:460/58 to explain his system
    for
    us.

    I've already asked him if there is a "%HELP" for the bot, in netmail...

    And what did he say? ;)

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Second try
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thursday, August 13, 2020 10:58:38
    Hi, Wilfred!

    07 áóú 20 08:27, Wilfred van Velzen -> August Abolins:

    It's seems to be occupied by a subset of (mostly) Russians, that are
    also
    in the https://t.me/fidonet_online Telegram group. Language is also Russian, but it seems to be less active than the other group...

    There are a lot of English-speaking users

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Second try
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Thursday, August 13, 2020 10:58:50
    Hi, August!

    09 áóú 20 10:37, August Abolins -> Wilfred van Velzen:

    I am curious to understand what "the Next FTN generation" means.

    You will have to ask him yourself. ;)

    I have! But it seems that we may have the wrong guy w.r.t the Telegram destination that used that slogan

    In general, in the Russian-speaking part of Fido, this is rather a kind of good teasing on young programmers who are going to write a "new Fidonet", and not a slogan.

    Stay tuned. Stas has indicated interest to drop by and explain
    things.

    I'll try. ;)

    It sounds like he has identified a need to link traditional Telegram
    users
    (mobile, and far from his local region) with dialup users to echos on his bbs.

    Not "need". It's a hobby, not more.

    Some of the aspects of Telegram are intriguing: privacy within a
    group, unsending (deleting messages), voice chat, message search, msg tracing/threading, file sharing, end-to-end encryption, secret chats,
    ..to name a few.

    For "echomail" all the secret stuff is nullified, but bridging mobile users to bbs users seems to be the main purpose.

    Not quite right, but something like this.

    The choice in favor of Telegram was made because it provides a free opportunity to do all this.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Second try
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Thursday, August 13, 2020 10:59:04
    Hi, August!

    09 áóú 20 10:37, August Abolins -> Wilfred van Velzen:

    For "echomail" all the secret stuff is nullified, but bridging mobile users to bbs users seems to be the main purpose.

    I can create private groups for personal use. This gives me the ability to read and write to Fido Echoconferencing using telegrams.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Second try
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Thursday, August 13, 2020 11:00:04
    Hi, August!

    10 áóú 20 09:17, August Abolins -> Wilfred van Velzen:

    Yes.. Stas is demonstrating that his gateway works. He has the magic sauce to transcode FTN bits with Telegram bits.

    It's not a magic at all. ;)

    But would he share the sauce so that other sysops can adapt it to
    their BBSes?

    It isn't a frontend for bbs.
    And for now the code is so integrated in my node system setup, then can not be transferred to another system without great rewritting. :(

    The Telegram option is not what I perceived that sysops were looking
    for.

    It is not for bbs, it is for echoconferences.

    It sounded like sysops where hoping for app/smartphone interface that
    ties directly with their BBS software.

    I'll try to make it more portable and will share the code. But, half of the gate is code, based on my tosser (I'm using HPT) perl extantion.

    But since Telegram provides an app + an api to utilize, a gateway
    could be an alternative method to get fidonet echos accessible to the smartphone user.

    Yes. But I doubt it would be a good idea to create multiple exit points for fido conferences into the telegram.

    Each sysop could employ a gateway for the echos they want to
    support directly.

    Not right! Any owner (moderator) of an echo may have decision to gating it to the telegram.

    Otherwise, the system really just needs someone
    like Stas's system to do all the work?

    For now it's right. Any owner of telegram grouop or modertor of echo can contact me for gating.

    PS: However, such a gate can be considered as a kind of BBS system and used on different nodes of the Fido network.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Second try
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Stas Mishchenkov on Thursday, August 13, 2020 14:10:21
    Hi Stas,

    On 2020-08-13 10:58:22, you wrote to me:

    Maybe we can get Stas Mishchenkov at 2:460/58 to explain his system
    for us.

    I've already asked him if there is a "%HELP" for the bot, in
    netmail...

    And what did he say? ;)

    He said: not yet. ;-)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Stas Mishchenkov on Thursday, August 13, 2020 14:11:07
    Hi Stas,

    On 2020-08-13 10:58:38, you wrote to me:

    It's seems to be occupied by a subset of (mostly) Russians, that are
    also in the https://t.me/fidonet_online Telegram group. Language is
    also Russian, but it seems to be less active than the other group...

    There are a lot of English-speaking users

    Indeed. When I spoke English in there, I got English replies...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thursday, August 13, 2020 17:19:42
    Hi, Wilfred!

    13 áóú 20 14:10, Wilfred van Velzen -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    He said: not yet. ;-)

    In fact, it is not difficult to make a netmail gate in telegrams and vice versa. However, in order to write from Fido to Telegram, you need to know the UserID in Telegram. Now every letter from Telegram to Fido has a kludge @TGUSERID, which will allow to write a private message from Fido to this user.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- î¡Ñ íÑß»«½Ñº¡« τΓ«-½¿í« ºá»αÑΘáΓ∞, ∩ ¿ Γᬠ¡Ñ ß«í¿αáεß∞ ¡¿τÑú« ñѽáΓ∞.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Thursday, August 13, 2020 21:47:00
    Hello Stas!

    Glad you could join us in FUTURE4FIDO! :)


    ** On Thursday 13.08.20 - 10:58, Stas Mishchenkov wrote to August Abolins:

    There are fido echo areas and Telegram groups with names equal fido
    echo tags. When a message appears in the Telegram group, it is copied
    to the echo conference of the same name and vice versa, messages from
    the echo conference are copied to the same group.

    How much use is the Telegram/echomail gate getting?

    How many participants are there?

    How many different echos are you processing?


    The files will be sent as URLs to the Fido part and UUE from Fido
    will be decoded and sent as files to the telegram.

    I'm pressed that you are also servicing movement of files. With the URLs
    to the Fido part, does the user pull the file off a Telegram server?

    I have many other questions, but I'll try to control myself - I promise.


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Friday, August 14, 2020 11:04:56
    Hi, August!

    13 áóú 20 21:47, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    How much use is the Telegram/echomail gate getting?

    I don't quite understand what you mean.

    How many participants are there?

    About 120.

    How many different echos are you processing?

    There is three groups of Telegram available publicly, any Telegram user can join. Several echoes is gated for my personal use only.

    The files will be sent as URLs to the Fido part and UUE from Fido
    will be decoded and sent as files to the telegram.

    I'm pressed that you are also servicing movement of files.

    May be "impressed"? ;)

    With the URLs to the Fido part, does the user pull the file off a Telegram server?

    No. I hold files on my own server.

    I have many other questions, but I'll try to control myself - I
    promise.

    Feel free to ask me.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- æΓδñ¡« íδóáÑΓ Γ«½∞¬« ºá Γ«, τΓ« »«¼¡¿Φ∞. ǽ¬«ú«½∞.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Wilfred van Velzen on Friday, August 14, 2020 12:00:19
    There are a lot of English-speaking users

    Indeed. When I spoke English in there, I got English replies...

    "English" or "english" ?

    --- DB4 - August 7 2020
    * Origin: Black Olives Matter (2:292/854)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Ward Dossche on Friday, August 14, 2020 23:57:18
    Hi, Ward!

    14 áóú 20 12:00, Ward Dossche -> Wilfred van Velzen:

    There are a lot of English-speaking users

    Indeed. When I spoke English in there, I got English replies...

    "English" or "english" ?

    Is it metter? When I spoke, I've got replies... ;)

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- æó«í«ñ¡á∩ íáíá ñ«½ª¡á »«¬áºδóáΓ∞ ß¿ß∞¬¿. çá¼πª¡∩∩ ¡Ñ ñ«½ª¡á,¡« Γ«ªÑ ó»αáóÑ
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Ward Dossche on Friday, August 14, 2020 23:58:54
    Hi, Ward!

    14 áóú 20 12:00, Ward Dossche -> Wilfred van Velzen:

    There are a lot of English-speaking users

    Indeed. When I spoke English in there, I got English replies...

    "English" or "english" ?

    Should you say any words about Fido<->Telegram gating at all and aspecially about gating netmail?

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ò«α«Φ¿⌐ ß«íÑßÑñ¡¿¬ ¡Ñ Γ«½∞¬« ó¡¿¼áΓѽ∞¡« ß½πΦáÑΓ, ¡« ¿ ó«óαѼ∩ ¡á½¿óáÑΓ.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Saturday, August 15, 2020 23:03:00
    Hello Stas!

    ** On Friday 14.08.20 - 11:04, Stas Mishchenkov wrote to August Abolins:

    How much use is the Telegram/echomail gate getting?

    I don't quite understand what you mean.

    I meant, how much activity do you measure through the gateway?


    How many participants are there?

    About 120.

    I see 100 in fidonet.online now. Are you including additional users in
    the FidoNet(unofficial) group too?

    OR.. is it just the two groups that the user Fido2telebot is a member of?
    I see Fido2telebot in the PVT.ZONA and fidonet.online groups.


    How many different echos are you processing?

    There is three groups of Telegram available publicly, any Telegram user can join. Several echoes is gated for my personal use only.

    Would you be inclined to expand the concept to an english-speaking crowd?

    I've seen some Fido2telebot posts. I see that you maintain the full name
    of the user coming in from the Fido side. Are you able to maintain
    threading with replies in the Telegram-to-Fido direction?


    I'm pressed that you are also servicing movement of files.

    May be "impressed"? ;)

    You are absolutely correct. My fingers raced ahead of me and I didn't
    notice the error until the message was done.


    With the URLs to the Fido part, does the user pull the file off a
    Telegram server?

    No. I hold files on my own server.

    I have many other questions, but I'll try to control myself - I
    promise.

    Feel free to ask me.

    I've already started; see above. :)

    Now that I am in Telegram and looking around, I see that it's not a bad system at all. The S)earch feature is awesome. The support for attaching files and photos and having them actually in their own "albums" or section for a discussion group is pretty good. A right-click on an image provides
    an option to go to the message that it was posted with - or people can
    view the images on their own. Same thing with audio and video files!

    I think you already mentioned that when your gateway processes a Telegram message that includes an image, the fido echo user sees a link for it from your own server?

    I like Telegrams "Members" list view. Unlike traditional FTN where you cannot see lurkers, with Telegram you know who's a member of a message
    group - which makes finding someone handy.

    Message and member control is amazing. Re-editing a posted message is
    very nice.

    More thoughts and questions later.





    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Saturday, August 15, 2020 23:33:00
    Hello Stas!

    ** On Thursday 13.08.20 - 10:57, Stas Mishchenkov wrote to Pasquale Monti:

    I believe that a way for the future of FIDONET to follow could be a
    geteway to telegram. Has no one ever thought about developing it?

    Young people use Telegram as we (al least I) used FIDONET, having a
    gateway could open new opportunities to the movement FIDONET!

    What do you think aout it?

    Such a gate already exists and works. However, the moderators of Fido
    echo conferences are reluctant to give permission for gating in
    telegram.


    Gating could start with new echo areas dedicated for the experiment.

    Then, when the concept looks good, existing echos could open distribution
    to the Telegram side.

    Having had a chance to look around Telegram with a desktop version, I am impressed with the clean look and fast response. Global searches and searches within a group are amazing. Re-editing a posted message is
    pretty neat.

    The way Telegram handles photos, files, videos, and voice messages per
    group is very nice. In that regard, a Telegram group could be a fine extension of an existing fido echo. For example, specific echos could
    have their own collection of relevant files and all it would take is to
    visit the Telegram twin and get the files. Or users could expand the
    social experience and drop voice recordings and images on the Telegram
    side.

    From a moderator's perspective, Telegram seems to have excellent controls available.

    I'm still very new to Telegram (less than 24 hours). WRT to messaging, I
    find the desktop's message window to be a tad on the small side. I
    imagine it would it would be even more constrained on a smartphone.

    But maybe Telegram can be a viable portal to a gated Fido echo to provide
    a quick view/search/post.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/58 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sunday, August 16, 2020 13:33:12

    Hello Wilfred!

    10 Aug 20 15:23, you wrote to August Abolins:

    Yes.. Stas is demonstrating that his gateway works. He has the
    magic sauce to transcode FTN bits with Telegram bits. But would
    he share the sauce so that other sysops can adapt it to their
    BBSes?

    Good question. ;)
    Telegram bots are implemented in such a way that they do not see messages from each other. Thus, the presence of two different gates in the same echo conference will lead to the loss of some of the discussion threads for Fido part.

    Stas


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: ----> Default GoldED Origin <---- (2:460/58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/58 to August Abolins on Sunday, August 16, 2020 14:15:40

    Hello August!

    15 Aug 20 23:03, you wrote to me:

    How much use is the Telegram/echomail gate getting?

    I don't quite understand what you mean.

    I meant, how much activity do you measure through the gateway?
    About three hundred messages per day, excluding mine.

    How many participants are there?

    About 120.

    I see 100 in fidonet.online now. Are you including additional users
    in the FidoNet(unofficial) group too?

    OR.. is it just the two groups that the user Fido2telebot is a member
    of? I see Fido2telebot in the PVT.ZONA and fidonet.online groups.
    fidonet.online, PVT.ZONA, FidoNet.unoficial -------------------------------------^

    How many different echos are you processing?

    There is three groups of Telegram available publicly, any
    Telegram user can join. Several echoes is gated for my personal
    use only.

    Would you be inclined to expand the concept to an english-speaking
    crowd?
    Why not?
    I've seen some Fido2telebot posts. I see that you maintain the full
    name of the user coming in from the Fido side. Are you able to
    maintain threading with replies in the Telegram-to-Fido direction?
    When a bot reads a message from a telegram, it still cannot know what @MSGID it will have in Fido. So replay tree can not be made for now.

    Feel free to ask me.

    I've already started; see above. :)
    You are welcome.

    Now that I am in Telegram and looking around, I see that it's not a
    bad system at all. The S)earch feature is awesome.
    Try my Fidogle on 2:460/58. ;)

    From : August Abolins 2:221/1.58
    To : Fidogle 2:460/58
    Subj : %Help

    The support for
    attaching files and photos and having them actually in their own
    "albums" or section for a discussion group is pretty good.

    Some kind of this is in Fido too. Look at https://brorabbit.g0x.ru/uue/
    I think you already mentioned that when your gateway processes a
    Telegram message that includes an image, the fido echo user sees a
    link for it from your own server?
    Yes.

    Stas


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: ----> Default GoldED Origin <---- (2:460/58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Sunday, August 16, 2020 17:11:30
    Hi, August!

    15 áóú 20 23:33, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    From a moderator's perspective, Telegram seems to have excellent
    controls available.

    It would be nice if the moderator agreed to moderate telegram users as well. Usually, this is the problem of the gatemaster.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ÄτÑ¡∞ »«¼«úáÑΓ »α«ß¡πΓ∞ß∩ ß πΓαá áαíπº ß óÑτÑαá.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Stas Mishchenkov on Sunday, August 16, 2020 19:39:48
    On 8/16/2020 10:11 AM, between "Stas Mishchenkov : August Abolins":

    From a moderator's perspective, Telegram seems to have excellent controls available.


    It would be nice if the moderator agreed to moderate telegram users as well. Usually, this is the problem of the gatemaster.


    I understand this to mean that you would be fine with just the gating operation, and not the moderation task (spotting spam, blocking users, etc) on the Telegram side? If so, that makes perfect sense. Infact, that way the moderation task is truly within the realm of the purportedly recognized fidonet moderator. I wonder if it could turn out to be an overwhelming task for the moderator to keep abreast of new users joining on the Telegram side.

    As a minimum, I would assume that for fidonet purposes, any gated group would be best set up as a private group to start with?

    The fidonet.online group sounds good, but I failed to pay attention to my grandmother when she demonstrated some proficiency in the language.



    --- 왨눺둔싼 極棘劇棘均逵筠 極棘곍싼꺫귂뚎곎 꺫귂逵 逵閨꺪 勻筠눺둘逵.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    "It really helps to wake up in the morning with a watermelon in the evening." ?





    --
    Apsol카t훮s ogas neaizpild카s grozu.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Sunday, August 16, 2020 22:58:00
    Hello Stas!

    ** On Sunday 16.08.20 - 14:15, Stas Mishchenkov wrote to August Abolins:

    Try my Fidogle on 2:460/58. ;)

    From : August Abolins 2:221/1.58
    To : Fidogle 2:460/58
    Subj : %Help


    I tried to send direct/crash. It would not negotiate. What are you using
    for the frontend? My OpenXP only has a known problem with mbcico systems.




    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Monday, August 17, 2020 18:48:54
    Hi, August!

    16 áóú 20 19:39, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    I understand this to mean that you would be fine with just the gating operation, and not the moderation task (spotting spam, blocking users, etc) on the Telegram side?

    Yes. You are right.

    If so, that makes perfect sense. Infact, that way the moderation
    task is truly within the realm of the purportedly recognized fidonet moderator. I wonder if it could turn out to be an
    overwhelming task for the moderator to keep abreast of new users joining on the Telegram side.

    The moderator can always contact me to block the user from the gate.

    As a minimum, I would assume that for fidonet purposes, any gated
    group would be best set up as a private group to start with?

    In deed. However, open groups are very useful and bring new users to the Fido network, as well as help old ones to return.

    The fidonet.online group sounds good, but I failed to pay attention to
    my grandmother when she demonstrated some proficiency in the language.

    What? ≡|8-( )=


    --- Очень помогает проснуться с утра арбуз
    с вечера.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    "It really helps to wake up in the morning with a watermelon in the evening." ?

    Yep. ;)

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ¥Γ« Γ«½∞¬« «Γ í«½∞Φ«ú« π¼á ú«αÑ, á «Γ ¼á½Ñ¡∞¬«ú« - Γá¬, ½Ñú¬á∩ úαπßΓ∞.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Monday, August 17, 2020 18:53:12
    Hi, August!

    16 áóú 20 22:58, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    Try my Fidogle on 2:460/58. ;)

    From : August Abolins 2:221/1.58
    To : Fidogle 2:460/58
    Subj : %Help


    I tried to send direct/crash. It would not negotiate. What are you using for the frontend? My OpenXP only has a known problem with mbcico systems.

    You caught the moment when I had server problems. Everything should work now. Moreover, I will now disable checking for the presence of the sender's address in @Via lines, since some BBS give out an address, but actually send a netmail from their own.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ¥¬«¡«¼¿∩ - øΓ« ¿ß¬πßßΓó« ΓαáΓ¿Γ∞ ñÑ¡∞ú¿, ¡Ñ »«½πτá∩ ¡¿¬á¬«ú« πñ«ó«½∞ßΓó¿∩.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Ogg Abo@2:460/58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Monday, August 17, 2020 19:07:16
    Answering a msg from Stas Mishchenkov:

    Hi, August!

    16 áóú 20 22:58, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    Try my Fidogle on 2:460/58. ;)

    From : August Abolins 2:221/1.58
    To : Fidogle 2:460/58
    Subj : %Help


    I tried to send direct/crash. It would not negotiate. What are you using for the frontend? My OpenXP only has a known problem with mbcico systems.

    You caught the moment when I had server problems. Everything should work now. Moreover, I will now disable checking for the presence of the sender's address in @Via lines, since some BBS give out an address, but actually send a netmail from their own.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    I am replying via TG, just to see what this looks like. Meanwhile, thanks for the update on the server connections.
    --- tg2fido.pl
    * Origin: Telegram to fido gate by Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Ogg Abo on Monday, August 17, 2020 19:13:26
    Hi, Ogg!

    17 áóú 20 19:07, Ogg Abo -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    I am replying via TG, just to see what this looks like. Meanwhile,
    thanks for the update on the server connections.

    It looks like ugly owerquoting, but it works.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- æΓδñ¡« íδóáÑΓ Γ«½∞¬« ºá Γ«, τΓ« »«¼¡¿Φ∞. ǽ¬«ú«½∞.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Stas Mishchenkov on Monday, August 17, 2020 19:58:44
    On 13/08/2020 3:59 a.m., Stas Mishchenkov : August Abolins wrote:

    I can create private groups for
    personal use. This gives me the
    ability to read and write to Fido
    Echoconferencing using telegrams.

    Requoting to fit 40chars. Hopefully the above won't wrap in Telegram.

    This method to access echos is probably better and *much* easier for the user than HotdogEd (nntp?), or the other one (point method).

    --- TB(Stealth)/Win7
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 08:36:00
    On 08-17-20 19:58, August Abolins wrote to Stas Mishchenkov <=-

    On 13/08/2020 3:59 a.m., Stas Mishchenkov : August Abolins wrote:

    I can create private groups for
    personal use. This gives me the
    ability to read and write to Fido
    Echoconferencing using telegrams.

    Requoting to fit 40chars. Hopefully the above won't wrap in Telegram.

    This method to access echos is probably better and *much* easier for
    the user than HotdogEd (nntp?), or the other one (point method).

    I have big issues with the point systems like HotDogEd and Aftershock. This is because I like the flexibility to be able to move from device to device. From what I've read, the Telegram gateway is pretty good at tracking lastread pointers, making it far more compatible with my style of operation. The only major downside is lack of offline access, which would be an issue when I'm in more rural areas. There's a lot of places not far from here where there's no mobile coverage at all.


    ... None of you exist; my Sysop types all this in!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tony Langdon on Monday, August 17, 2020 19:51:00
    Hello Tony!

    ** On Tuesday 18.08.20 - 08:36, Tony Langdon wrote to August Abolins:

    I have big issues with the point systems like HotDogEd and
    Aftershock. This is because I like the flexibility to be able to move
    from device to device.

    Telegram will give you consistency from device to device.


    From what I've read, the Telegram gateway is pretty good at tracking lastread pointers, making it far more compatible with my style of operation.

    Yes.. Telegram just resumes from the last message you left on your screen.
    And a little bubble reports how many new/unviewed messages have appeared since then. You just scroll down to catch up.


    The only major downside is lack of offline access, which would be an
    issue when I'm in more rural areas. There's a lot of places not far
    from here where there's no mobile coverage at all.

    Telegram offers the API and code stuff: "The Telegram API and TDLib allow
    you to build your own customized Telegram clients."

    Maybe someone can build a client that can gleen and store messages
    locally.

    Meanwhile... maybe Stas' Fidogle@2:460/58 could be leveraged to provide
    the offline stash you need. A couple of the available commands are:

    %FromDate dd/mm/yyyy

    - search starting from the specified date inclusive.
    Same the format dd.mm.yyyy can be used. Optional parameter.


    %TillDate dd/mm/yyyy

    - Searches up to and including the specified date.
    You can also use the dd.mm.yyyy format. Optional parameter.


    Each match arrives as a separate netmail message.

    THEN, if there is a way (I think it is turn off right now) to reply to one
    of them as a netmail to be gated into the Telegram group, you could
    construct your replies offline.


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 15:22:00
    On 08-17-20 19:51, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Telegram will give you consistency from device to device.

    That is one of the reasons I'm keen to play with Telegram.

    Yes.. Telegram just resumes from the last message you left on your
    screen.
    And a little bubble reports how many new/unviewed messages have
    appeared since then. You just scroll down to catch up.

    Just like it does with regular chat.

    Maybe someone can build a client that can gleen and store messages locally.

    Interesting idea.

    Meanwhile... maybe Stas' Fidogle@2:460/58 could be leveraged to provide the offline stash you need. A couple of the available commands are:

    %FromDate dd/mm/yyyy

    - search starting from the specified date inclusive.
    Same the format dd.mm.yyyy can be used. Optional parameter.


    %TillDate dd/mm/yyyy

    - Searches up to and including the specified date.
    You can also use the dd.mm.yyyy format. Optional parameter.


    Each match arrives as a separate netmail message.

    THEN, if there is a way (I think it is turn off right now) to reply to
    one of them as a netmail to be gated into the Telegram group, you could construct your replies offline.

    Hmm, sounds convoluted. :D


    ... Do you want graphics? NO, and quit asking me!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 11:27:24
    Hi, August!

    17 áóú 20 19:58, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    I can create private groups for
    personal use. This gives me the
    ability to read and write to Fido
    Echoconferencing using telegrams.

    Requoting to fit 40chars. Hopefully the above won't wrap in Telegram.

    I'll add it to todo list after netmail gating. ;)

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- î¡Ñ íÑß»«½Ñº¡« τΓ«-½¿í« ºá»αÑΘáΓ∞, ∩ ¿ Γᬠ¡Ñ ß«í¿αáεß∞ ¡¿τÑú« ñѽáΓ∞.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 11:59:52
    Hi, August!

    17 áóú 20 19:51, August Abolins -> Tony Langdon:

    Telegram offers the API and code stuff: "The Telegram API and TDLib
    allow you to build your own customized Telegram clients."

    If I'll find perl API, I'll try...

    Maybe someone can build a client that can gleen and store messages locally.

    Now it can be done by gating to Fido.

    Meanwhile... maybe Stas' Fidogle@2:460/58 could be leveraged to
    provide
    the offline stash you need. A couple of the available commands are:

    %FromDate dd/mm/yyyy

    - search starting from the specified date inclusive.
    Same the format dd.mm.yyyy can be used. Optional parameter.


    %TillDate dd/mm/yyyy

    - Searches up to and including the specified date.
    You can also use the dd.mm.yyyy format. Optional parameter.


    Each match arrives as a separate netmail message.

    THEN, if there is a way (I think it is turn off right now) to reply to one of them as a netmail to be gated into the Telegram group, you could construct your replies offline.

    I have never thought about this possibility of using the search in Fido. Search was conceived and implemented much earlier than the Telegram gate.
    However, there is a small "but". Gating of netmail to telegram groups is not planned. There will be an option to send private messages, which I am currently testing.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ô «ñ¡¿σ ½εñÑ⌐, »«½πΦáα¿∩ »α¿¬αδóáεΓß∩ ¬«ßΓ∩¼¿ τÑαÑ»á, π ñαπú¿σ - ΦΓá¡á¼¿.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 21:15:00
    Hello Stas!

    ** On Monday 17.08.20 - 18:48, Stas Mishchenkov wrote..

    I understand this to mean that you would be fine with
    just the gating operation, and not the moderation task
    (spotting spam, blocking users, etc) on the Telegram
    side?

    Yes. You are right.

    Maybe a handful of other echos could open up for the gate.
    The current moderator just needs to create matching-name
    private group on Telegram and your Fido2telebot personality
    just "joins" it?


    The moderator can always contact me to block the user
    from the gate.

    It is good to have your willingness to step in. Thanks.


    As a minimum, I would assume that for fidonet
    purposes, any gated group would be best set up as a
    private group to start with?

    In deed. However, open groups are very useful and bring
    new users to the Fido network, as well as help old ones
    to return.

    Hmmmm.. maybe this new outreach of fidonet echos could use
    a dedicated Telenet-only FIDONET.STARTHERE (or something
    like that) group or a read-only channel that advertises
    which echos are gated and promotes this smooth and easy
    accessibility via smartphone.

    BTW.. how long have you been gating Telegram|FTN ?


    What? ≡|8-( )=

    And that is secret glyph/code for what? :/

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 21:48:00
    Hello Stas!

    ** On Sunday 16.08.20 - 14:15, Stas Mishchenkov wrote to August Abolins:

    When a bot reads a message from a telegram, it still
    cannot know what @MSGID it will have in Fido. So replay
    tree can not be made for now.

    What does the message "header" look like in Telegram? Isn't
    there a unique ID for each post and a trace to a reply? I
    am thinking that it wouldn't be too much different than the
    msg references in nntp headers.


    Now that I am in Telegram and looking around, I see
    that it's not a bad system at all. The S)earch
    feature is awesome.

    Try my Fidogle on 2:460/58. ;)

    THAT is precisely what I was asking about months ago (but
    had wondered about for years) for an equivalent to the
    existing FILEFIND systems but for echomail messages. I am
    glad someone was thinking of such a thing too. It works
    rather well. How far back do you keep old messages?


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Wednesday, August 19, 2020 13:23:56
    Hi, August!

    18 áóú 20 21:15, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    Maybe a handful of other echos could open up for the gate.

    This requires the consent of the moderator.

    The current moderator just needs to create matching-name
    private group on Telegram and your Fido2telebot personality
    just "joins" it?

    Right. The moderator can create a group in Telegram himself and add a bot there. After that contact me to add this echo conference to the list of gated ones.

    Hmmmm.. maybe this new outreach of fidonet echos could use
    a dedicated Telenet-only FIDONET.STARTHERE (or something
    like that) group

    It is quite logical to create a Telegram group for new users, gated in Fido. However, such a group lacks a full understanding of what the Fido network is and what a membership in it would actually look like.

    or a read-only channel that advertises
    which echos are gated and promotes this smooth and easy
    accessibility via smartphone.

    I think such a channel is quite possible to create, but it will not need to be gated in Fido.

    BTW.. how long have you been gating Telegram|FTN ?

    I do not remember exactly. A little over a year or so.

    What? ≡|8-( )=

    And that is secret glyph/code for what? :/

    This emoticon depicts a face with a mouth wide open in surprise, eyes wide open in surprise, hair standing on end and a beard. ;)

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- "Å«Γ«¼" - πΓÑΦ¿Γѽ∞¡á∩ Σ«α¼á "¡¿¬«úñá".
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Wednesday, August 19, 2020 13:50:00
    Hi, August!

    18 áóú 20 21:48, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    What does the message "header" look like in Telegram?

    A message in a telegram is a tree-like object in which there is quite a lot of information, not all of it is currently used by the gate.

    Isn't there a unique ID for each post and a trace to a reply?

    Yes.

    I am thinking that it wouldn't be too much different than the
    msg references in nntp headers.

    Probably yes.

    Now that I am in Telegram and looking around, I see
    that it's not a bad system at all. The S)earch
    feature is awesome.

    Try my Fidogle on 2:460/58. ;)

    THAT is precisely what I was asking about months ago (but
    had wondered about for years) for an equivalent to the
    existing FILEFIND systems but for echomail messages.

    Moreover, it works in such a way that you can also find a file by name or even part of the description. This is due to the fact that echoes with announcements of file echo processors are also viewed.

    I am glad someone was thinking of such a thing too. It works
    rather well.

    Glad it might be helpful.

    How far back do you keep old messages?

    In fact, my base is not very old, only two or three years, but most of the echoes do not purge at all.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ìá σá½∩óπ ¡Ñ Γ«½∞¬« π¬ßπß ß½áñ«¬, ¡« ¿ ßó¿¡¿¡á »«ßΓ¡á, σá½∩½∞¡á ¿ ¬«ΦÑα¡á.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Wednesday, August 19, 2020 08:58:00
    Hello Stas!

    ** On Wednesday 19.08.20 - 13:23, Stas Mishchenkov wrote to August Abolins:


    What? ≡|8-( )=

    And that is secret glyph/code for what? :/

    This emoticon depicts a face with a mouth wide open in
    surprise, eyes wide open in surprise, hair standing on end
    and a beard. ;)

    Eventually, I figured it out. My knowledge, expectation and use
    of emojis only extends not much beyond the few simple ones.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Wednesday, August 19, 2020 17:27:38
    Hi, August!

    19 áóú 20 08:58, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    What? ≡|8-( )=

    [...skipped...]

    Eventually, I figured it out. My knowledge, expectation and use
    of emojis only extends not much beyond the few simple ones.

    Doesn't the face look like intuitively?

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ¥¬«¡«¼¿∩ - øΓ« ¿ß¬πßßΓó« ΓαáΓ¿Γ∞ ñÑ¡∞ú¿, ¡Ñ »«½πτá∩ ¡¿¬á¬«ú« πñ«ó«½∞ßΓó¿∩.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From August Abolins@2:460/58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Wednesday, August 19, 2020 18:04:10
    Answering a msg from Stas Mishchenkov:

    Hi, August!

    19 áóú 20 08:58, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    What? ≡|8-( )=

    [...skipped...]

    Eventually, I figured it out. My knowledge, expectation and use
    of emojis only extends not much beyond the few simple ones.

    Doesn't the face look like intuitively?

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    In hindsight it looks as you describe. But my mindset was simply not in emoji-art mode at that time. I usually read parallel-view to a message and not at 90? !! LOL

    --- tg2fido.pl
    * Origin: Telegram to fido gate by Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Thursday, August 20, 2020 00:42:18
    Hi, August!

    19 áóú 20 13:50, Stas Mishchenkov -> August Abolins:

    THAT is precisely what I was asking about months ago (but
    had wondered about for years) for an equivalent to the
    existing FILEFIND systems but for echomail messages.

    Moreover, it works in such a way that you can also find a file by name or even part of the description. This is due to the fact that echoes with announcements of file echo processors are also viewed.

    Try

    Subj: %Search

    %Words The First FIDONET NODELIST

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ìá σá½∩óπ ¡Ñ Γ«½∞¬« π¬ßπß ß½áñ«¬, ¡« ¿ ßó¿¡¿¡á »«ßΓ¡á, σá½∩½∞¡á ¿ ¬«ΦÑα¡á.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Friday, August 21, 2020 09:00:44
    Hi, August!

    20 áóú 20 00:42, Stas Mishchenkov -> August Abolins:

    Moreover, it works in such a way that you can also find a file by
    name or
    even part of the description. This is due to the fact that echoes with
    announcements of file echo processors are also viewed.

    Try

    Subj: %Search

    %Words The First FIDONET NODELIST

    I'm sorry. I had no idea that the answer could be so huge. Apparently, it was necessary to clarify the request.

    %Words the first fidonet nodelist Area FILE.* bytes

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ïεñe⌐, »eαeª¿óΦ¿σ ½eΓ« ó 濼ΣÑα«»«½Ñ, íπñπΓ óδúo¡∩Γ∞ ¿º áñá ºá ß¼eσ ó ¬oΓ½Ñ
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Friday, August 21, 2020 09:15:02
    Hi, August!

    20 áóú 20 00:42, Stas Mishchenkov -> August Abolins:

    Moreover, it works in such a way that you can also find a file by
    name or
    even part of the description. This is due to the fact that echoes with
    announcements of file echo processors are also viewed.

    Try

    Subj: %Search

    %Words The First FIDONET NODELIST

    I'm sorry. I had no idea that the answer could be so huge. Apparently, it was necessary to clarify the request.

    %Words the first fidonet nodelist Area FILE.* bytes

    It will find five messages.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ïεñe⌐, »eαeª¿óΦ¿σ ½eΓ« ó 濼ΣÑα«»«½Ñ, íπñπΓ óδúo¡∩Γ∞ ¿º áñá ºá ß¼eσ ó ¬oΓ½Ñ
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Sunday, August 23, 2020 12:58:00
    Hello Stas!

    ** On Friday 21.08.20 - 09:00, Stas Mishchenkov wrote to August Abolins:

    Try

    Subj: %Search

    %Words The First FIDONET NODELIST

    I'm sorry. I had no idea that the answer could be so huge. Apparently, it was necessary to clarify the request.

    Heheheh! No problem. At first I thought this was a trap and I
    fell for it. <g> But after I sent it, I realized that this was
    going to search through a whole slew of echo areas.


    %Words the first fidonet nodelist Area FILE.* bytes

    I can see that being a much narrow hit list.

    BTW.. the messages arrive with no char kludge, hence Jamnntp and
    neither my OpenXP seems to know how to interpret the 8-bit chars.


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Monday, August 24, 2020 18:55:12
    Hi, August!

    23 áóú 20 12:58, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    BTW.. the messages arrive with no char kludge, hence Jamnntp and
    neither my OpenXP seems to know how to interpret the 8-bit chars.

    Thank. This is a helpful note. I didn't notice there was no kludge. I will fix it.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- æΓáα«ßΓ∞ - øΓ« ¬«úñá ó¿ñ¿Φ∞ ß¿ß∞¬¿ ¿ óß»«¼¿¡áÑΦ∞, τΓ« ºáíδ½ ¼«½«¬á ¬π»¿Γ∞
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)