I will try not to get to far out there with my update to this echo, but its not easy.
Again thanks to everyone who is taking interest in this topic, I think its a great topic and maybe it can generate and inspire innovate thoughts for some problems with the current internet, the information age, and how to continue to enable everyone to be more free with information sharing and obtaining.

I really wanted to reply to some of you because all of your thoughts are good. I even find the argument about this echo a nice addition to the general problem with the current internet. Because this echo has a number of responses Its really difficult to quote each one and highlight some of the things I found pretty interesting. I'm not that good with echo mail yet.

I also didn't really want this to be about a debate be rather get a census for current ideas and thoughts related to if I'm the only person out there who things the current internet, search engines, social media is really dumbing down the public who is using it. I don't use most of social media, evident by my post here and no other place. I think the current political and corporate climate is not safe to post ones thoughts generally. In addition the idea posts becoming immortal within the internet and used to evaluate individuals based on current and emerging trends doesn't lend well to candid or constructive views.

Examples are where you post anything about a fun night you had out could impact your ability to be promoted. Or CNN will come look for you and start a campaign to make your current and future life and ability to advance your lot in life a nightmare or impossible. With this thought in mind I don't believe the information age as arrived nor do I believe the current internet was meant to be as it it. The folks at CERN had a different idea compared to global commerce, but those in the commerce and banking industry found the internet an efficient means to move information.

I had some thoughts to add to all of yours.
1. we all have an opportunity to make the internet a better place. As some have pointed out the internet is what you look for.
2. I really think talking about the internet not just the small % of it we see available via major search engines but additionally those parts that are not available.

I also wanted to highlight some aspects of availability, access to, and presentation.
availability is a huge aspect of information that will be consumed generally.
I find this similar to schools teaching our children.
Its not really the fault of the ignorant that they are ignorant
Those who are not have a general responsibility under society's
egalitarian hope, with solidarity to guide those that are
ignorant. Not for the benefit of literate but for the benefit
of both literate and ignorant. There is a mutual benefit. Often
corporations and governments see this as consent to benefits in
a way where those receiving should pay, or give more than they
receive so govs and corps can profit and transfer wealth from
the masses by any means possible.
Good and valid information should be available and easy to find
This really makes all the difference in the world.
Those in North Korea with there 26 websites vetted by their
government have little to no chances as responsible ignorants
of finding and obtaining valid information to enhance their or
anyone elses lives.
Our youths in poor public schools have less opportunity based on
terrible educations compared with those in rich affluent regions

access; without it no way anyone can use the information if it did
exist. Here we see this often. In America many research
initiatives are funded via tax/government assistance. These are
things like cancer research, many scientific research initiatives
all become unavailable to the general public; even though, the
public paid for it or a portion of it. Although with $$$ an
individual can obtain such information but generally no.
presentation; this is where things like yahoo.com and google.com
generally present a small % of the internet to the mass public.
here is where you search for things and those who have accounts
with google and other search providers show up at the top of
the search results. This is how the shopping from google starts
, now I realize this isn't for every search result. The other
interesting fact from presentation is how malware is injected
from paid advertisements that show at the top of the hit list
via banner adds and other forms that internet criminal organi-
zations pay to google and google and other major providers help
perpetrate cyber-crime against its users.
If I present 1 beer (budwiser) day and night to you, when some
person says lets get beer the first thing you will think is
budwiser. This is the concept that presentation guides and
creates markets that may not have existed before. If I offer
something I can create main channel markets and sub channel
profits. This is exactly what has occurred with gmail and why
there are large class action suites against google and yahoo.
In part this is a sub channel market that the legal demographic
is tapping into, those firms will make mass $$ compared to those
who were hurt by the actions of the primary market.

Now I thought I would address more related to responsibility of the users of the internet.
Because I feel this goes in 2 directions I believe people have a responsibility to not just do what they can, but do what they should. Part of that is about providing valid information. I can't recall how many cancer cures I've seen that appear absolutely ludicrous or coconut oil for vaginal health, and a myriad of things that are virtually impossible for the general person to disprove or research for utter lack of a lifetime at the computer and the lack of a research group. People have a responsibility to provide valid information not for making money but for providing information to people for the good of everyone. The current trend is for commerce. People think how to make money at youtube. Look up a video and what do you hear, ??? don't forget to subscribe, and like, and share, ...etc. Solicitations for commercial generation. The internet for free information should and could be free.

Take the FDA stance on sugar being healthy based on lobbyist that causes a mass epidemic world wide. The sugar industry isn't forcing people in general to eat sugar per say but propaganda combined with government support has degraded the health of millions, whereas if the sugar industry not only produced their government backed studies on the subject and had unbiased scientific information without profits in mind, and why federally funded info isn't available.

These aspects are the concepts that govern the control of information within the current mainstream internet based on the laws of the current technology. The visible controls shrouded in legalsleeze are what is binding people to stupidity and driving them towards a consumer age never seen before, compared with genesis and intent of the internet; information age. Difference is the hunters vs the hunted, we are the hunted and not being equipped to be hunters. private data mined that is provided by the people is studied and although that information you are providing is no longer yours, permanent, and used against you to create psychological hooks for you to continue to provide information and pay for consumption, based on EULA and other laws.

I think some of these things we are talking about highlight some causes of the dumbing down of information to continuously create a desire to consume entertainment and anything easily persuade general public to spend money and provide nothing of value, and if value in information is provided its quickly disputed or perceived to be invalid to maintain the focus on spending money and having people provided feed back for corporates to understand how to get every person to continue to consume their products, weather its healthy for consumers or not.


Things like distributed computing mentioned by others is such a great example of reshaping the internet and with that thought in mind allows people to start redefining search engines and capabilities that take the power from a single person or corporation and put it into the hands of the people, at least until someone or some government tries to usurp it.

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Nick Andre wrote to Richard Menedetter <=-

Remember the early to mid 90's... The world did not suddenly morph into some magical utopia when the Internet became popular, nor would the "information superhighway" bring us together or improve our social standings with eachother by removing those geographical limits. In
fact, I think the opposite happened. People by and large just stare off into their smartphones, or are addicted to Facebook, or seem compelled
to share pictures of what theyre about to have for supper. Cybercrime
is more advanced and prevailent than ever nowadays.

so true. I watch people sitting neck crained swipe swipe, and its interesting how they behave, and more interesting is how they interact in the real world, they can't communicate well, they don't remember things well, nor do they have deep understanding of things that are not mainstreamed.

I realise its not all doom and gloom and there are a few good websites
out there, but IMO western society's social skillset and intelligence level did not improve whatsoever by the Internet. Computer operating system GUI's these days appear to be now designed for the lowest common denominator. Windows 10, Gnome 3, etc. The ribbon in Microsoft Office? What a piece of crap.

The Internet is just a tool for communication.
You need to select with WHOM you communicate.

RM, this is true, we do need to select who we communicate with. Its getting very very difficult to not communicate with people because we have no idea we are doing so. The systems we own are doing that for us without our understanding or knowledge.

I really wish I could share the same sentiments, truth is, the Internet
is by and large powered by companies who by and large earn profits by tracking and manipulating individual's on-line activity. Google, Microsoft, Amazon, etc.

The tools they use like cell phones, TV's, computers, operating systems, software, ..etc, all are dependant on the internet, and come with contracts attached to them you have to agree to EULA, that are pre loaded you don't even see them or have a choice to agree, disagree before you purchase the everything you must agree to. You have bought into their devices and data mining before you even had a chance to disagree to it. LIke when you purchase a phone off amazon, when you turn that phone on, you must agree to the EULA. When you purchase a phone in the store often the tech there hits agree for you. WE are their product! Thats the sad part.

As things move forward in time based on the laws and the current layer level, more and more control is used to make us the product and charge us for being the product.

Nick

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Hi Bbsing,

Who are you? There is no real name in the header of your messages, and you don't sign them.

Bye, Wilfred.

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* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On 17 Aug 17 09:44:29, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Bbsing Bbs:

Hi Bbsing,

Who are you? There is no real name in the header of your messages, and you don't sign them.

Who cares? The quality of conversation is good enough for me.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
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On 17 Aug 17 06:04:00, Bbsing Bbs said the following to All:

Examples are where you post anything about a fun night you had out could im your ability to be promoted. Or CNN will come look for you and start a camp to make your current and future life and ability to advance your lot in lif nightmare or impossible. With this thought in mind I don't believe the

Without getting too political or "preachy-talky"... heres my take on this.

It seemed that when CNN started out in the beginning, they were mostly focused on reporting "the facts". Its what made them such a powerful, respected channel. The focus was on that breaking-news and reporting in the most
factual way they could manage to do so. Some really respected talent was on the network at one time. But... as time went on, I think it was towards the end of the OJ trial and the Clinton blowjob scandals where the shift went from facts to "opinion shows". It wasn't really noticable immediately but
gradually over a period of time.

Whether people like Trump or not, one thing became clear, and that was here
is now a president who took the media to task almost head-on. Openly slamming CNN and MSNBC. Coupled with his presence on Twitter - Now I understand
Twitter has the right to suspend his account if he gets a little too hot for his own good, but it did show that he has a "forum", where his words come from him directly. No spin, twist or opinion from any news channel.

I'm sure its possible to get transcripts of any White House press briefings and whatnot, but seems like Trump has almost single-handedly been able to control the frenzy surrounding how the media perceives him to be.

When he does post something on Twitter, it is now the media that takes those postings and gives their opinions on it. Sure, they report exactly what he tweeted, but its now a situation where you have, for example, different opinions coming from CNN and the Fox news channel.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 17 Aug 17 06:27:00, Bbsing Bbs said the following to Nick Andre:

so true. I watch people sitting neck crained swipe swipe, and its interesti how they behave, and more interesting is how they interact in the real worl they can't communicate well, they don't remember things well, nor do they h deep understanding of things that are not mainstreamed.

Explain the concept of libraries to most millenials and you get a dumbfounded stare. As if Wikipedia now has more credibility than anything else on the planet these days.

The tools they use like cell phones, TV's, computers, operating systems, software, ..etc, all are dependant on the internet, and come with contracts attached to them you have to agree to EULA, that are pre loaded you don't e see them or have a choice to agree, disagree before you purchase the everyt you must agree to. You have bought into their devices and data mining befor you even had a chance to disagree to it. LIke when you purchase a phone off amazon, when you turn that phone on, you must agree to the EULA. When you purchase a phone in the store often the tech there hits agree for you. WE a their product! Thats the sad part.

I believe the EULA was challenged in a British court once, argued by a consumer that it was impossible to use a device without accepting the EULA and that "nobody reads those things anyway".

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 2017 Aug 17 06:04:00, you wrote to All:

and how to continue to enable everyone to be more free with
information sharing and obtaining.

do you mean like using or at least signing your posts with your real name? nicholas?

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Nick Andre wrote to Bbsing Bbs <=-

On 17 Aug 17 06:27:00, Bbsing Bbs said the following to Nick Andre:

so true. I watch people sitting neck crained swipe swipe, and its

interesti

how they behave, and more interesting is how they interact in the real

worl

they can't communicate well, they don't remember things well, nor do they

h

deep understanding of things that are not mainstreamed.

Explain the concept of libraries to most millenials and you get a dumbfounded stare. As if Wikipedia now has more credibility than
anything else on the planet these days.

They are so lucky in some respects to have a tool of information in their pocket. I think that is amazing. I would have loved it, we all would have and it has been the stuff our my childhood sci-fi fantasy.

The downside is how younger people (as old as 35), use google and anyone else they can ask, as their library. The instantaneous obtainable answer has replaced their use of reasoning, logic, and analysis. The type of reasoning a person does with their brain alone to determine if the answer they've obtained (by whatever means), is valid. This same thing I've witnessed creates them to forget the very answer they've received. The double issue, is similar to the back side of your hand, that you've seen all your life but can determine when seeing similar hands what one is actually yours. You've not given the back side of your hand much concern over your life. The internet has become the brain and memory of a few couple generations, and problem the current one.

The tools they use like cell phones, TV's, computers, operating systems, software, ..etc, all are dependant on the internet, and come with

contracts

attached to them you have to agree to EULA, that are pre loaded you don't

e

see them or have a choice to agree, disagree before you purchase the

everyt

you must agree to. You have bought into their devices and data mining

befor

you even had a chance to disagree to it. LIke when you purchase a phone

off

amazon, when you turn that phone on, you must agree to the EULA. When you purchase a phone in the store often the tech there hits agree for you. WE

a

their product! Thats the sad part.

I believe the EULA was challenged in a British court once, argued by a consumer that it was impossible to use a device without accepting the
EULA and that "nobody reads those things anyway".

I've heard Microsoft lost cased about their EULA several years ago.

I know one of the guy's who created Reddit, was hauled into jail about EULA's and made an example of, eventually he killed himself, but I'm not exactly sure the full relation between his downloading activities of EULA's and the laws he allegedly broke. I think the example is in part to legitimize EULAs as a true contract of consent, by negative consequences when rebelled against.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
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I also don't want to get too political, but over the past few years, I've of very interesting uses of the internet, as well as others who are now showing and proving the behavioral control capability of social media.

Bbsing

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Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Bbsing Bbs <=-

Hi Bbsing,

Who are you? There is no real name in the header of your messages, and you don't sign them.

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Wilfred.

I'm Bbsing (the noun).

Its it bad that I'm identified as Bbsing?

I think in a climate of cancel culture and weaponizing free speech against speech people don't like based on emotional whims, identity politics, and tribalism, is just dangerous, and not promoting decent discussions.


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Nick Andre wrote to Richard Menedetter <=-

On 13 Aug 17 12:02:16, Richard Menedetter said the following to
Orbitman:

Nobody forces the general public to look at Facebook.
They could as well download an EBook from Descartes, or some scientific

pap

and read that.
It is NOT the Internets fault that people do not do that very often.
They COULD do it, if they wanted to.

But sadly Richard... people by and large don't want to.

Since the Internet became popular, we have yet to see some really truly great science or scientists evolve; using the tools and information available on the Internet to advance the next "great thing".

Some exceptions of course. Take that project which uses the idle processing power of a volunteer's desktop computer to participate in a mass distributed-computing effort to decode images from space. Bitcoin currency is possibly another. Both of those have some real potential.

That project was amazing and it was used to understand the human genome. I really like distributed systems, like bittorrent, bitcoin (not an owner), casandra, I2P, and I'm thinking about getting into Bittorrent File System BTFS (not butter file system).

I'm interested in non-centralized systems, and systems giving freedom to users/people.

Bbsing

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