I am setting up the infocom games as doors on Mystic. So far I have gotten 17 infocom games to work perfectly using netfoss. How ever some others have
issues on the users end and wont display at all or display while overwriting the text.

My setup for the BBS is running the latest Mystic A43 on Windows 7 32bit.

Here are the two situations:

A) You can see the game is running just fine on the BBS machine in the users local window but on their end nothing shows until you exit the game for them from the local window on the BBS machine.

B) The game does display on the users end but each line of text overwrites on its self. How ever in the users window on the local BBS machine it is displaying just fine.

Any input/suggestions for these two different situations?

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On 09 May 2019 at 10:30p, Shane O'Neill pondered and said...

I am setting up the infocom games as doors on Mystic. So far I have gotten 17 infocom games to work perfectly using netfoss. How ever some others have issues on the users end and wont display at all or display while overwriting the text.

My setup for the BBS is running the latest Mystic A43 on Windows 7 32bit.

[snip]

Any input/suggestions for these two different situations?

I'm not sure which games Infocom put out. But that said, have you installed
and are using a fossil driver of some kind like Netfoss? I have a few doors locally running on the BBS (same os and build of Mystic as you) and use
Netfoss to ensure a user can play things when they connect via telnet

Best, Paul

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I'm not sure which games Infocom put out. But that said, have you installed and are using a fossil driver of some kind like Netfoss? I

Yes sir, see below here:

gotten 17 infocom games to work perfectly using netfoss. How ever som

In fact the version is:
-= NetFoss Internet FOSSIL =-
for Windows

Version 1.20
September 16, 2018
Copyright (c) 2001-2018 PC Micro

It is strange how some work perfectly and others have one of the two
display issues I pointed out in my initial post. My gut tells me it is a NetFoss issue just by all the configurations I have tried and observed on
both the BBS machine and user machine.

I know there has to be something I am missing as I see for example the
infocom game Trinity, it will not show anything on the user end but looks perfect on the BBS machine in the user window.

infocom game Nord and Bert shows on the user end but each line of text overwrites the previous, like no line feeds. Yet on the BBS machine in the
user window it is displayed perfectly.

This is why I am reaching out, im out of ideas and knowledge on this.

Is there a better fossil driver?

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To: Shane.O'Neill
Re: Infocom games user display issues...
By: nospam.Shane.O'Neill to All on Thu May 09 2019 10:30 pm

From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.mystic

I am setting up the infocom games as doors on Mystic. So far I have gotten 17 infocom games to work perfectly using netfoss. How ever some others have issues on the users end and wont display at all or display while overwriting the text.

My setup for the BBS is running the latest Mystic A43 on Windows 7 32bit.

Here are the two situations:

A) You can see the game is running just fine on the BBS machine in the users local window but on their end nothing shows until you exit the game for them from the local window on the BBS machine.

B) The game does display on the users end but each line of text overwrites on its self. How ever in the users window on the local BBS machine it is displaying just fine.

Any input/suggestions for these two different situations?

Lots of later Infocom games actually use graphical text so using Netfoss without some kind of interpreter to convert the game to normal text may not work.

I found a program called Waffle Infocom that I run on synchronet, but it only works with Z3 files (first 20 or so, published Infocom games), so anything v.Z4 and above won't work.

An interpreter like Frotz might help you out if you can get it to work. For some reason I could never get the Windows version to work with Netfoss. I've heard Frotz will work just dandy under Linux with BBSs, but I haven't tried it yet.

Lots of people have suggested finding a Python Interpreter like Viola! (https://intfiction.org/t/viola-a-z-machine-in-python/6844) and converting it for use with Mystic, but that's beyond my abilities.

-A.
--
Android8675@ShodansCore
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I found a program called Waffle Infocom that I run on synchronet, but it only works with Z3 files (first 20 or so, published Infocom games), so anything v.Z4 and above won't work.

Cool, I will give that a try, maybe some of the old infocoms that are not displaying like Nord and Bert might with Waffle Infocom!

An interpreter like Frotz might help you out if you can get it to work. For some reason I could never get the Windows version to work with Netfoss. I've heard Frotz will work just dandy under Linux with BBSs,
but I haven't tried it yet.

Yeah I too played with Frotz, no luck for me either again being in Windows. Like you said I read folks in Linux have luck with it though.

Lots of people have suggested finding a Python Interpreter like Viola! (https://intfiction.org/t/viola-a-z-machine-in-python/6844) and
converting it for use with Mystic, but that's beyond my abilities.

You and I both! But might be enough to open my mind and dust off the old programmer in me and see what can be done. I say that like I have time and patients! LOL

Thanks for the reply I will explore your suggestion of Waffle for sure!!!!
S.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
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On 16 May 2019 at 01:34p, Shane O'Neill pondered and said...

Thanks for the reply I will explore your suggestion of Waffle for
sure!!!! S.

sorry I have not been able to offer more ideas Shane. I hope you can suss
your problem out :)

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On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 4:59:33 AM UTC+8, Shane O'Neill wrote:

Like you said I read folks in Linux have luck with it though.

Unfortunately, I can't help with the Windows issue, but I can confirm no issues
with Frotz on Linux - I've got everything running on *Humongous* BBS (maybe not
the V6 games I dont recall). Since Mystic can run any Linux terminal app as a door, there's no
messing with Fossil drivers.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

Unfortunately, I can't help with the Windows issue, but I can confirm no issues with Frotz on Linux - I've got everything running on *Humongous* BBS (maybe not the V6 games I dont recall). Since Mystic can run any
Linux terminal app as a door, there's no
messing with Fossil drivers.

Yes I came to the conclusion the games that don't display on the user end I suspect all have a common denominator, that is they are possibly a new
version of the games. I had to walk away for a while from it as I was obsession and you know the more you do that the less you make progress. I figure it give me something to look into again come winter. ;)

I also need to locate older versions of the said titles that have this issue
to rule out/confirm my theory.

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On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 10:35:45 PM UTC+8, Shane O'Neill wrote:

I also need to locate older versions of the said titles that have this issue to rule out/confirm my theory.

Over at the Interactive Fiction Archive under Infocom/patches are patches allowing you to convert any version of any Infocom game to any other version.

https://www.ifarchive.org/indexes/if-archive/infocom/patches/

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On 07 Sep 2019, Nathanael Culver said the following...

Over at the Interactive Fiction Archive under Infocom/patches are patches allowing you to convert any version of any Infocom game to any other version.

https://www.ifarchive.org/indexes/if-archive/infocom/patches/

Holy bat biscuits!!! I will go check this out for sure in the coming days.
This could be just what I need to get the rest of the infocom collection working online my my BBS.

Glad you chimed in on this whole thread, thank you!!!!!!!

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To: nospam.Shane.O'Neill
Re: Re: Infocom games user display issues...
By: nospam.Shane.O'Neill to Nathanael Culver on Sat Sep 07 2019 22:49:37

I have a version of frotz I modified for safe use as a BBS door, you can get it here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/frotzdoor/

Its very important to NOT run the stock frotz as it normally allows filesystem access... That version includes settings for synchronet, but if mystic allows shell commands as doors you should be able to get it working using the synchronet example...

Marisa
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Over at the Interactive Fiction Archive under Infocom/patches are patches allowing you to convert any version of any Infocom game to any other version.

https://www.ifarchive.org/indexes/if-archive/infocom/patches/

Well I did some quick testing tonight to see if I could isolate the issue to
a point that one of you all might be able to help some more.

One game that will not display on the user end but does on the host machine is "A Mind Forever Voyaging" but in this scenario will refer to it as AMFV.

One game that does display and work for BOTH the user and of course on the host machine is "Hollywood Hijinx" again in this scenario will refer to it as HOLLYWO.

I also tried every FROTZ i could for DOS (being my Mystic is on a windows 7 32bit machine) from http://inform-fiction.org/zmachine/dos.html. In the end I went with DOS FROTZ v2.40 on there.

So knowing HOLLYWO already works on my bbs (using its own .com intrerperter) I created a test menu game option in mystic to call up the following configurations with the results:

Option 1:
using FROTZ 2.40 set to display monochrome HOLLYWO - WORKED 100% for user Option 2:
using FROTZ 2.40 set to display color text HOLLYWO - FAILED to work for user Option 3:
using FROTZ 2.40 set to display monochrome AMFV - FAILED to work for user Option 4:
using FROTZ 2.40 set to display color test AMFV - FAILED to work for user

* Note in all these options the games always work/show up on the mystic server/host machine.

So that is crude I know, I got these same results with the other FROTZ
versions available from that site also. Again this makes me think the issue
of no display on the user end for the game AMFV (and others that have this issue) is the .DAT file of the game (being the .dat is the whole game). That is where I figured the game version is causing this.

Hope all that makes some sense and helps shed light on the issue, now I wait and do look forward to any/all input from you all!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
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I have a version of frotz I modified for safe use as a BBS door, you can get it here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/frotzdoor/

Good to know but I am using mystic on a Windows 7 32bit machine...

I did a post on here just before this reply outlining my testing scenario
using a DOS FROTZ with a working .DAT game and one of the ones that wont
work if your interested in my findings with other DOS FROTZ.

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On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 10:10:41 AM UTC+8, Shane O'Neill wrote:

HOLLYWO already works on my bbs (using its own .com intrerperter)

AMFV, Bureaucracy, Nord and Bert and Trinity were all Z-version 4 games. Try BUREAUCR, NORDANDB or TRINITY with their own .COM interpreters.

If one of those works, it's easy to modify the .com file for AMFV: simply open it in a binary editor and you'll see the string "BUREAUCR". Change it to "AMFV
" (four spaces) and you should be good to go.

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Wow quick reply, thanks!

AMFV, Bureaucracy, Nord and Bert and Trinity were all Z-version 4 games. Try BUREAUCR, NORDANDB or TRINITY with their own .COM interpreters.

If one of those works, it's easy to modify the .com file for AMFV:
simply open it in a binary editor and you'll see the string "BUREAUCR". Change it to "AMFV " (four spaces) and you should be good to go.

No luck though, none of those games worked before and again
tonight they still dont for the user, only display on the mystic bbs machine but not on the user end.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
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On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 11:35:05 AM UTC+8, Shane O'Neill wrote:

this makes me think the issue ... is the .DAT file

Highly unlikely, I think. The DAT files are generic game code. All machine-specific code resides in the .COM file.

My next thought has to do with screen control codes. Under CP/M there were no standards for screen control, with a plethora of monitors saturating the market. The .COM files were system-specific and tailored for a particular system's screen (e.g., Lear
ADM3A, Kaypro, SuperBrain, VT52, Wyse, Amstrad CPC, etc.)

Under DOS, screen control was standardized, so if you're running DOS versions I'd think it wouldn't matter. But if I recall your problem was that on the user
end everything was displaying on the top line, and that sounds like a screen control problem,
maybe something with the fossil driver not correctly translating control codes.

Grab a hex editor and open up the .COM file for Hollywood Hijinx (which is Z-code ver. 3). The first 200 bytes or so contain configuration information, including the screen control codes for new line, clear screen, and so forth.

The following is based on work I did many years ago on the CP/M version of the .COM files, and it looks like offsets may be different in the DOS versions, but
perhaps it will still be helpful. (If the following is garbled because leading spaces get
stripped out, grab a copy of any of the .ASM files from my site here:)

http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/ftp.php?b=cpm%2FSoftware%2FHumongous%2FGames%2FInfocom%2FMisc

------------------------
CPMCPL: DB 79 ;Characters/line (132 maximum)
CPMLPP: DB 23 ;Lines/screen (NOT including status line)
CPMFN: DB 'ZORK2',20H,20H,20H
;File name (DO NOT CHANGE THIS)
CPMCLF: DB 1 ;1 if LF should print after CR on screen
CPMLLF: DB 1 ;1 if LF should print after CR on printer
CPMINV: DB 80H ;Number to add to ASCII value of characters
;to have them print in inverse video.
;This is not applicable on many terminals.

;The following strings have a count field followed by up
;to 32 characters.

TINIT: DB 6 ;Initialize the terminal.
;Should position the cursor at the
;lower left corner of the screen.
;On terminals with the facility, a
;scrolling region should be established
;to include all but the top line on
;the screen. Also, clearing the screen
;is desirable.
DB 1EH,1AH,1BH,'=',55,32

DS 32-$+TINIT+1
TRESET: DB 0 ;Reset the terminal at end of game.
;For example, if a scrolling region
;was established, reset it to include the
;entire screen. Clearing the screen is
;NOT desirable.

DS 32-$+TRESET+1
BLINE: DB 4 ;Begin status line.
;Should move the cursor to the upper
;left corner of the screen. If at all
;possible, should go into inverse video.
DB 1BH,'=',32,32

DS 32-$+BLINE+1
ELINE: DB 4 ;End status line.
;Should move the cursor to the lower
;left corner of the screen. If status
;line uses inverse video, this state
;should be cleared.
DB 1BH,'=',55,32

DS 32-$+ELINE+1
PINIT: DB 0 ;Printer initialization.
;If any setup is required prior to
;using scripting.
------------------------

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WOW You have given me a lot of homework and I love it!!!!

Under DOS, screen control was standardized, so if you're running DOS versions I'd think it wouldn't matter. But if I recall your problem was that on the user end everything was displaying on the top line, and that sounds like a screen control problem,
maybe something with the fossil driver not correctly translating control codes.

To correct your good memory just a bit, the user screen only shows the FOSSIL drive text at the top (just like all the working ones) and then NOTHING else. Not even games text at the top row, just all black until I go to the windows 7 mystic machine and open that users window which is showing the game correctly and exit them from the game. Then the users screen on their end returns them back to the bbs games menu and all is good. If you go to my bbs (bbs.8bitboyz.com:6502) and go to the games section, from there menu option
IF for infocom and run any of those games you will see they work. then while
in the infocom game menu type TT (its my hidden menu command to test the AMFV game and you will see the fossil drive text then nothing and will have to
hang up.

Tomorrow I am working at home so I will do what you posted to check on things...How ever i did try using the Hollywood Hijinx .com file to call up
the AMFV.dat by renaming AMFV.dat file to match Hijinx file and it still did not work. I know that was crude but will try your approach for sure!

Tonight I did do the following just to isolate the fossil and now like you
I think that fossil is maybe my issue. The following is part of my .bat file that executes each of the games:

:COMMAND

REM *** This goes to the users game folder, passes data to netfoss
and runs the game ***

cd c:\mystic\doors\infocom\games\!u_games\%4\%1"
c:\mystic\netfoss\netfoss.com /m /i /t%1
%game% c:\mystic\temp%1\door.sys
c:\mystic\netfoss\netfoss.com /m /i0
cd\

So what I did was remove the /m and /i to the above and tried to run HIJINX that is currently working. The result by removing those flags HIJINX then
had the the no user display issue. I added back just the /m and it then
worked. So I then added back the /i and course it worked having both the /m
and /i .

Does that give you any clues?

I will report back tomorrow after I try your suggestions also!

Thanks again!

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