• Synchronet questions

    From Robbie Whiting@1:218/410 to All on Friday, March 05, 2021 07:10:12
    Hi all,

    I've got a few question about Synchronet and was hoping the community
    could help fill in some details... Sorry if these are newbie Q's.

    A bit of a backstory, I'm a serial BBS experimenter. I recently
    setup Synchronet as a rlogin-based door server and then I started
    poking around in other areas and discovered how powerful it is under the hood...

    The Q's!

    - There doesn't seem to be a ton of examples in the wild, or
    tutorial-esque material, of how to do theming/programming of command
    shells. Does that mean most Synchronet sysops just run the
    default/included shells? Has anyone compiled tips/tricks beyond what's
    in the doc wiki?

    - Baja vs. javascript. My understanding is baja approach (compiled) is
    more comprehensive than the js approach. Any recos here?

    - I see there is one xtrn-based message viewer (DDMsgReader). Looks
    pretty cool. But is there another (relatively easy) way to modify message
    read headers/footers without go full external? Could be that I am just
    really used to FSRs and need to get used BBSs that don't have that :)

    - It looks like there is a ton of potential for progammatic customization
    via shells/events/etc. Any Synchronet sysops who have transformed their
    BBS in unique ways?

    Cheers, and thanks for yout time!


    |04[] |12Alpha
    |02TheDrunkenGamer.com|06:|108888
    |08A Talisman BBS


    --- Talisman v0.11-dev (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Drunken Gamer BBS (1:218/410)
  • From Nelgin@EOTLBBS to Robbie Whiting on Friday, March 05, 2021 12:17:13
    Robbie wrote:
    The Q's!

    - There doesn't seem to be a ton of examples in the wild, or
    tutorial-esque material, of how to do theming/programming of command
    shells. Does that mean most Synchronet sysops just run the
    default/included shells? Has anyone compiled tips/tricks beyond what's
    in the doc wiki?

    As someone once told me, every Synchronet BBS looks like every other
    Synchronet BBS :) That said, quite a few people have made up their own menus.

    Most of what you need is already included in the menus, you just need to
    change the key bindings as required.

    - Baja vs. javascript. My understanding is baja approach (compiled) is
    more comprehensive than the js approach. Any recos here?

    You can pretty much do anything in JS that you can do in Baja. Sometimes more. I use a mixture of both for my menus, mainly because I just adapted each menu to suit. I think the idea is to eventually phase out Baja so you may just want to go with JS anyway.

    - I see there is one xtrn-based message viewer (DDMsgReader). Looks
    pretty cool. But is there another (relatively easy) way to modify message read headers/footers without go full external? Could be that I am just
    really used to FSRs and need to get used BBSs that don't have that :)

    There may be some option. I'm not a big fan of editing someone elses message. If you use msglist.js you can use O for the operatior menu and alter flags.

    - It looks like there is a ton of potential for progammatic customization
    via shells/events/etc. Any Synchronet sysops who have transformed their
    BBS in unique ways?

    You may want to download SyncTerm and go through some of the boards that are listed. Many of them are unique.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Digital Man to Robbie Whiting on Friday, March 05, 2021 10:57:35
    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Robbie Whiting to All on Fri Mar 05 2021 07:10 am

    - There doesn't seem to be a ton of examples in the wild, or
    tutorial-esque material, of how to do theming/programming of command
    shells. Does that mean most Synchronet sysops just run the
    default/included shells?

    There are a lot of example modules and shells here: ftp://vert.synchro.net/main/BAJAMODS/
    ftp://vert.synchro.net/main/SBBS_3RD/
    ftp://vert.synchro.net/main/SMEG/

    Has anyone compiled tips/tricks beyond what's
    in the doc wiki?

    http://synchro.net/docs/baja.html
    http://synchro.net/docs/customization.html

    - Baja vs. javascript. My understanding is baja approach (compiled) is
    more comprehensive than the js approach. Any recos here?

    Baja is the crappy legacy language that will likely eventually disappear, but still there are some cases where it's better suited to a task than JS (for now). We continue to enhance the JS object model however so the nails in the Baja coffin keep accumulating.

    - I see there is one xtrn-based message viewer (DDMsgReader). Looks
    pretty cool.

    There's also msglist.js

    But is there another (relatively easy) way to modify message
    read headers/footers without go full external?

    Sure, there's text/menu/msghdr.*
    http://wiki.synchro.net/custom:messageheader

    Could be that I am just
    really used to FSRs and need to get used BBSs that don't have that :)

    Synchronet has traditionally been a "scroller" interface, but adding more and more support for the FSR-type stuff as time goes on.

    - It looks like there is a ton of potential for progammatic customization via shells/events/etc. Any Synchronet sysops who have transformed their
    BBS in unique ways?

    Check-out bbs.electronicchicken.com, it's the least Synchronet-looking/feeling Synchronet BBS that I've seen.
    --
    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #15:
    CR = Carriage Return (ASCII 13, Ctrl-M)
    Norco, CA WX: 72.9°F, 27.0% humidity, 0 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From xbit@XBITBBS to Digital Man on Friday, March 05, 2021 11:52:45
    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to Robbie Whiting on Fri Mar 05 2021 10:57 am

    We continue to enhance the JS object model however so the nails
    in the Baja coffin keep accumulating.

    Gave me the sads :~(

    ---
    The X-BIT BBS --> http://x-bit.org
    ■ Synchronet ■ The X-BIT BBS * http://x-bit.org * http://x-bit.org/777.htm
  • From Digital Man to xbit on Friday, March 05, 2021 17:03:35
    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: xbit to Digital Man on Fri Mar 05 2021 11:52 am

    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to Robbie Whiting on Fri Mar 05 2021 10:57 am

    We continue to enhance the JS object model however so the nails
    in the Baja coffin keep accumulating.

    Gave me the sads :~(

    If/when we remove PCMS (Baja-compiled .bin) support, their likely will be some JS-thing to interpret/execute .bin files or Baja source. The Baja language itself is nothing to lament losing though. :-)
    --
    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #36:
    FTSC = FidoNet Technical Standards Committee
    Norco, CA WX: 72.8°F, 30.0% humidity, 11 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Robbie Whiting@1:218/410 to Digital Man on Friday, March 05, 2021 18:05:11
    There are a lot of example modules and shells here: ftp://vert.synchro.net/main/BAJAMODS/
    ftp://vert.synchro.net/main/SBBS_3RD/
    ftp://vert.synchro.net/main/SMEG/

    Excellent. I'll check 'em out.

    Cheers,

    |04[] |12Alpha
    |02TheDrunkenGamer.com|06:|108888
    |08A Talisman BBS


    --- Talisman v0.11-dev (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Drunken Gamer BBS (1:218/410)
  • From echicken@ECBBS to Robbie Whiting on Saturday, March 06, 2021 05:23:22
    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Robbie Whiting to All on Fri Mar 05 2021 07:10:12

    - Baja vs. javascript. My understanding is baja approach (compiled) is more comprehensive than the js approach. Any recos here?

    Baja is sufficient for simple mods and command shells, and sysops with less programming experience find it easier to pick up.

    Javascript offers many more options and far more comprehensive data about and control over the BBS.

    In general I would say to just go with JS, since it'll do everything Baja can do and more. However, it really depends on your background and aspirations.

    - There doesn't seem to be a ton of examples in the wild, or tutorial-esque material, of how to do theming/programming of command

    There are lots of examples in the Synchronet git repo, especially in the exec/ and xtrn/ directories, but there's not much/any material explaining it. You pretty much need to read through a script, see what it does, make some changes, see what happens.

    We could probably do with some tutorials, but I'm not sure what people would like to see. Articles? Videos?

    shells. Does that mean most Synchronet sysops just run the default/included shells? Has anyone compiled tips/tricks beyond what's

    Depending on how much customization you want to do, you can get away with using one of the default shells and replacing some "graphics" and some strings in text.dat, and maybe making small edits to the shell's source. I imagine this is what most sysops do.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From Alpha@ALPHACOM to echicken on Saturday, March 06, 2021 09:20:40
    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: echicken to Robbie Whiting on Sat Mar 06 2021 05:23 am

    In general I would say to just go with JS, since it'll do everything Baja can do and more. However, it really depends on your background and aspirations.

    Excellent. Have some experience with javascript, so looking forward to diving in.

    There are lots of examples in the Synchronet git repo, especially in the exec/ and xtrn/ directories, but there's not much/any material explaining it. You pretty much need to read through a script, see what it does, make some changes, see what happens.
    We could probably do with some tutorials, but I'm not sure what people would like to see. Articles? Videos?

    As a newbie (but not new to BBSing) I was looking for whatever articles or videos I could find. Digital Man's recent vids (from last year) that walked through Ubuntu setup, FTN, etc. were really what de-mistified things for me. Just little things I glossed over when reading the docs, but seeing it in a YouTube video made a HUGE difference.

    Depending on how much customization you want to do, you can get away with using one of the default shells and replacing some "graphics" and some strings in text.dat, and maybe making small edits to the shell's source. I imagine this is what most sysops do.

    Cool -- going to start there. Changing graphics, commands, work my way up to the more custom stuff...

    Thanks, eChicken!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Computer Loves You! Be Happy. That is an Order.
  • From Nelgin@EOTLBBS to echicken on Saturday, March 06, 2021 06:35:20
    echicken wrote:
    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Robbie Whiting to All on Fri Mar 05 2021 07:10:12

    - Baja vs. javascript. My understanding is baja approach (compiled) is more comprehensive than the js approach. Any recos here?

    Baja is sufficient for simple mods and command shells, and sysops with less programming experience find it easier to pick up.

    I agree. It was pretty easy to midify the default menus and with a limited command it was easy enough to find what I needed to do in the manual.


    Javascript offers many more options and far more comprehensive data about and control over the BBS.

    For sure. The good thing about javascript menus are that they are dynamic and don't have to be reloaded by logging out like the Baja scripts. At least
    that's how it seemed to me.


    In general I would say to just go with JS, since it'll do everything Baja can do and more. However, it really depends on your background and aspirations.

    - There doesn't seem to be a ton of examples in the wild, or tutorial-esque material, of how to do theming/programming of command

    There are lots of examples in the Synchronet git repo, especially in the exec/ and xtrn/ directories, but there's not much/any material explaining it. You pretty much need to read through a script, see what it does, make some changes, see what happens.

    There's a JS version of the default.src with an interesting note "this is not
    a good exmaple of how to write a menu" or something like that. For me, it worked perfectly fine and all the others seem to be based off it. It might be easier to take that simple chat_sec.js as a starting point. It isn't as complicated as the others.


    We could probably do with some tutorials, but I'm not sure what people would like to see. Articles? Videos?

    I've programmed in a few languages, but not JS untill I came to Synchronet, so it was a learning curve in relation to the objects, mostly and trying to remember to JS syntax rather than the perl or bash or whatever I've been
    using. I think people will find something about the jsobj stuff, the userdefs and sbbsdefs files, when to use load or require, etc.

    shells. Does that mean most Synchronet sysops just run the default/included shells? Has anyone compiled tips/tricks beyond what's

    Depending on how much customization you want to do, you can get away with using one of the default shells and replacing some "graphics" and some strings in text.dat, and maybe making small edits to the shell's source. I imagine this is what most sysops do.

    *raises hand*. I got rid of the "synchronet" header on the menu menu to start with and then fiddles with the time/date display. It took over a year before I really made any significant changes. I really didn't have a vision of what I wanted plus I really suck buckets with graphics and art in general so coming
    up with something innovative was a bit of a strech, as I'm sure anyone who logged into my BBS can attent :)

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From xbit@XBITBBS to Digital Man on Saturday, March 06, 2021 11:56:04
    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to xbit on Fri Mar 05 2021 05:03 pm

    some JS-thing to interpret/execute .bin files or Baja source. The Baja language itself is nothing to lament losing though. :-) --

    Well said DM :) Looking forard to the future.
    ---
    The X-BIT BBS --> http://x-bit.org
    ■ Synchronet ■ The X-BIT BBS * http://x-bit.org * http://x-bit.org/777.htm
  • From nolageek@CAPSHRIL to Nelgin on Friday, March 05, 2021 20:44:39
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nelgin to Robbie Whiting on Fri Mar 05 2021 12:17 pm

    customization via shells/events/etc. Any Synchronet sysops who have
    transformed their BBS in unique ways?

    I've put a lot of work into my board - I've completely re-written the defaults/settings area to add some options like message readers, default replies to login questions, fast login. I wrote my own new user form, rumurs module, 2fa authentication, etc.. I've tried to take ideas from other software and add it to my own - with mixed results of successfulness. lol

    |01-|03nolageek

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Capitol Shrill BBS - Washington, DC - capitolshrill.com
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to xbit on Saturday, March 06, 2021 15:04:10
    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: xbit to Digital Man on Fri Mar 05 2021 11:52 am

    We continue to enhance the JS object model however so the nails
    in the Baja coffin keep accumulating.

    Gave me the sads :~(


    I first found out about Synchronet in 2007, and it had already been using JS at the time. My first couple mods (including my custom command shell) were in Baja, but I soon started using Synchronet's JS model and haven't looked back. I also re-wrote my command shell in JS. I thought it was a bit funny that a JS command shell still needs a one-liner Baja module to run the JS script. :)

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to xbit on Saturday, March 06, 2021 19:42:25
    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: xbit to Digital Man on Sat Mar 06 2021 11:56 am

    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to xbit on Fri Mar 05 2021 05:03 pm

    some JS-thing to interpret/execute .bin files or Baja source. The Baja language itself is nothing to lament losing though. :-) --

    Well said DM :) Looking forard to the future.

    there are some things you can do quicker and easier in baja than .js , though. and i'm getting old and dealing with this covid shit and all the craziness so i dont wanna do either
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From deon@ALTERANT to Robbie Whiting on Sunday, March 07, 2021 12:41:43
    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Robbie Whiting to All on Fri Mar 05 2021 07:10 am

    Howdy

    The Q's!

    - There doesn't seem to be a ton of examples in the wild, or tutorial-esque material, of how to do theming/programming of command shells. Does that mean most Synchronet sysops just run the default/included shells? Has anyone compiled tips/tricks beyond what's
    in the doc wiki?

    I havent read past your message but I'm sure you've got some responses. But bascally you can change lot...

    - Baja vs. javascript. My understanding is baja approach (compiled) is more comprehensive than the js approach. Any recos here?

    The way to go would be javascript. Rob has done a lot of work there, and IIRC, Baja may be on the way out? (But not in the short term).

    - It looks like there is a ton of potential for progammatic customization via shells/events/etc. Any Synchronet sysops who have transformed their BBS in unique ways?

    Yup, I've got an implemetantion based around Viewdata/videotex. I chip away at it every now and again - and it has away to go, but it can do some things now. I have a true 40x25 column Videotex implementation that you can access via the web (or a videotex client), or an ANSI implementation (80x25) via my BBS on port 24.

    I really should work on it more and get it more functional...

    ...δεσ∩

    ... They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From Mortifis@MUSEUM to Robbie Whiting on Sunday, March 07, 2021 12:17:44
    Hi all,

    I've got a few question about Synchronet and was hoping the community
    could help fill in some details... Sorry if these are newbie Q's.


    - There doesn't seem to be a ton of examples in the wild, or
    tutorial-esque material, of how to do theming/programming of command
    shells. Does that mean most Synchronet sysops just run the
    default/included shells? Has anyone compiled tips/tricks beyond what's
    in the doc wiki?

    - Baja vs. javascript. My understanding is baja approach (compiled) is
    more comprehensive than the js approach. Any recos here?


    I believe that most sysops that decide to customize a command shell for their bbs start by modifying an existing shell (ie: default.src or wwiv). I have several variations of command_shells with different menus and screens in ../text/menu/<myshell>. There is talk that at some point Baja will be removed (I hope not), however, in meantime, Baja is still a power option for creating command_shells, though,,scripting them in sbbs javascript is encouraged. Hopefully someone will add a little baja command shell example on the wiki :)


    - I see there is one xtrn-based message viewer (DDMsgReader). Looks
    pretty cool. But is there another (relatively easy) way to modify message read headers/footers without go full external? Could be that I am just really used to FSRs and need to get used BBSs that don't have that :)

    - It looks like there is a ton of potential for progammatic customization via shells/events/etc. Any Synchronet sysops who have transformed their
    BBS in unique ways?


    |04[] |12Alpha

    I cannot claim that my board has been 'transformed' but I have 3 main sbbs instances that have different looks and feels, theme based 'experiences' with custom js scripts, etc.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ AlleyCat! BBS Game Server rlogin://alleycatbbs.com:5513
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to all on Sunday, March 07, 2021 14:38:57
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Mortifis to Robbie Whiting on Sun Mar 07 2021 12:17 pm

    - I see there is one xtrn-based message viewer (DDMsgReader). Looks pretty cool. But is there another (relatively easy) way to modify message read headers/footers without go full external? Could be that I am just really used to FSRs and need to get used BBSs that don't have that :)

    - It looks like there is a ton of potential for progammatic

    customization
    via shells/events/etc. Any Synchronet sysops who have transformed their BBS in unique ways?

    msgheader.asc or is it msghdr.asc and text.dat
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Tim Whitson@FQBBS to Nelgin on Sunday, March 07, 2021 19:42:24
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nelgin to Robbie Whiting on Fri Mar 05 2021 12:17 pm

    As someone once told me, every Synchronet BBS looks like every other Synchronet BBS :) That said, quite a few people have made up their own menus

    I took great pains to make my BBS different. I modeled it off my old RemoteAccess BBS in the 90's. I don't even offer the stock menus as an option.

    I made an unique *.src baja file to control all my menus. Drew custom menus and such. It's not hard to do. Make the BBS your own.

    Tim

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Fool's Quarter - fqbbs.synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Tim Whitson on Monday, March 08, 2021 08:28:34
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Tim Whitson to Nelgin on Sun Mar 07 2021 07:42 pm

    As someone once told me, every Synchronet BBS looks like every other
    Synchronet BBS :) That said, quite a few people have made up their own
    menus

    I took great pains to make my BBS different. I modeled it off my old RemoteAccess BBS in the 90's. I don't even offer the stock menus as an option.

    I made an unique *.src baja file to control all my menus. Drew custom menus and such. It's not hard to do. Make the BBS your own.

    That's what I did. For my old BBS I ran in the 90s, I ran RemoteAccess, and when I started with Synchronet, I created my own custom command shell and modeled it off my old (custom) RemoteAcces menus as much as I could. I always thought customizing your BBS is what you should do. It always felt natural to want to make it my own and offer something unique. I always figured the stock menus were to have something at least functional, and perhaps also to serve as an example to make your own customizations.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Nightfox on Monday, March 08, 2021 12:32:26
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nightfox to Tim Whitson on Mon Mar 08 2021 08:28 am

    when I started with Synchronet, I created my own custom command shell and modeled it off my old (custom) RemoteAcces menus as much as I could. I always thought customizing your BBS is what you should do. It always felt natural to want to make it my own and offer something unique. I always figured the stock menus were to have something at least functional, and perhaps also to serve as an example to make your own customizations.


    sadly, since 2000, half or more of synchronet's bbses have not had any customization or very little. i dont understand it.

    i never saw it on this scale with any other bbs software
    i saw it a few times with wildcat!
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to MRO on Monday, March 08, 2021 12:55:21
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 12:32 pm

    sadly, since 2000, half or more of synchronet's bbses have not had any customization or very little. i dont understand it.

    i never saw it on this scale with any other bbs software
    i saw it a few times with wildcat!

    I don't understand not wanting to customize it either. I always thought part of the whole point (and fun) of running a BBS was to make it different so you can offer something unique. I'm not sure why I'd run a BBS if I didn't have a desire to make something unique or an idea of some way to do so.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Digital Man to Nightfox on Monday, March 08, 2021 14:05:43
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Mar 08 2021 12:55 pm

    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 12:32 pm

    sadly, since 2000, half or more of synchronet's bbses have not had any customization or very little. i dont understand it.

    i never saw it on this scale with any other bbs software
    i saw it a few times with wildcat!

    I don't understand not wanting to customize it either. I always thought part of the whole point (and fun) of running a BBS was to make it different so you can offer something unique. I'm not sure why I'd run a BBS if I didn't have a desire to make something unique or an idea of some way to do so.

    Content. For me, custom menus and login matrix's aren't really "content". Back in the day, content that would draw callers was mainly messages, files, chat and games. If you don't have any content, a highly-customized BBS is just an empty house with fancy window dressing.
    --
    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #39:
    Female Airport Security Officer: Do you have any artificial plates or limbs? Norco, CA WX: 62.2°F, 53.0% humidity, 4 mph NW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Alpha to Digital Man on Monday, March 08, 2021 15:31:57


    Baja is the crappy legacy language that will likely eventually disappear, but still there are some cases where it's better suited to a task than JS (for now). We continue to enhance the JS object model however so the nails in the Baja coffin keep accumulating.

    There's also msglist.js


    Is msglist.js currently able to handle newscan and message reading? Was reading that was probably not where it's at yet? I also watched your YouTube video... Would make a lot of sense to have something native for that... If not, the DD Reader seems to fit the bill currently, yeah?
  • From Digital Man to Alpha on Monday, March 08, 2021 17:52:21
    Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Alpha to Digital Man on Mon Mar 08 2021 03:31 pm



    Baja is the crappy legacy language that will likely eventually disappear, but still there are some cases where it's better suited to a task than JS (for now). We continue to enhance the JS object model however so the nails in the Baja coffin keep accumulating.

    There's also msglist.js


    Is msglist.js currently able to handle newscan and message reading?

    It can be used during message reading (hit 'L' from the main menu in the default/classic command shell), but not new-scanning.

    Was
    reading that was probably not where it's at yet? I also watched your YouTube video... Would make a lot of sense to have something native for that... If not, the DD Reader seems to fit the bill currently, yeah?

    Sure.
    --
    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #14:
    The Boston gig has been cancelled. [Don't] worry, it's not a big college town. Norco, CA WX: 57.1°F, 63.0% humidity, 6 mph NE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Nightfox on Monday, March 08, 2021 19:48:27
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Mar 08 2021 12:55 pm

    i never saw it on this scale with any other bbs software
    i saw it a few times with wildcat!

    I don't understand not wanting to customize it either. I always thought part of the whole point (and fun) of running a BBS was to make it different so you can offer something unique. I'm not sure why I'd run a BBS if I didn't have a desire to make something unique or an idea of some way to do so.

    in the dialup days we had a wildcat! bbs that was stock all the way down to sysop name being sysop.

    it sat like that for like 5 or more years.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Digital Man on Monday, March 08, 2021 19:50:53
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 02:05 pm

    different so you can offer something unique. I'm not sure why I'd run a BBS if I didn't have a desire to make something unique or an idea of some way to do so.

    Content. For me, custom menus and login matrix's aren't really "content". Back in the day, content that would draw callers was mainly messages, files, chat and games. If you don't have any content, a highly-customized BBS is just an empty house with fancy window dressing.
    --

    i've never seen a pretty bbs with no content.When someone works on one thing they work on the other. it's a full package.

    Art and customization is very much so content. it's the person expressing themself.

    maybe that's how it was with you wwiv guys; wwiv bbses werent popular in my region.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Digital Man on Monday, March 08, 2021 19:09:49
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 02:05 pm

    I don't understand not wanting to customize it either. I always

    Content. For me, custom menus and login matrix's aren't really "content". Back in the day, content that would draw callers was mainly messages, files, chat and games. If you don't have any content, a highly-customized BBS is just an empty house with fancy window dressing.

    Yes, you definitely need content too (I won't argue that). Although the look & feel isn't content, I tend to think it helps to have a BBS look unique. A unique look & feel can help someone remember your BBS; also, a sysop might have their own idea about what options they want on their menus and perhaps a unique idea about how they want their menu navigation to work, etc..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to MRO on Monday, March 08, 2021 19:10:29
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 07:48 pm

    in the dialup days we had a wildcat! bbs that was stock all the way down to sysop name being sysop.

    it sat like that for like 5 or more years.

    I always enjoyed using <BBS name>, run by that well known guy, Sysop.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Altere@ATHEL to Nightfox on Monday, March 08, 2021 21:56:53
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Mar 08 2021 12:55 pm

    sadly, since 2000, half or more of synchronet's bbses have not had
    any customization or very little. i dont understand it.
    i never saw it on this scale with any other bbs software
    i saw it a few times with wildcat!

    I don't understand not wanting to customize it either. I always thought part of the whole point (and fun) of running a BBS was to make it different so you can offer something unique. I'm not sure why I'd run a BBS if I didn't have a desire to make something unique or an idea of some way to do so.

    Once upon a time I had mine customized, own shell, menus, modified text.dat, guru.dat, etc.. Unfortunately, it all got lost and I'm no good a designing ansi menus, nor do I have the time. I would probably find a few hours to write my own shell if I could find someone to do the menus, but that hasn't seemed to work with a few posts here and there, even on the FB groups hasn't worked. Currently I just update, test a few things, report bugs, and read some groups.

    -altere

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Athelstan BBS ■ athelstan.org ■ telnet:23 / ssh:2222
  • From Digital Man to Nightfox on Monday, March 08, 2021 21:05:32
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Mon Mar 08 2021 07:09 pm

    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 02:05 pm

    I don't understand not wanting to customize it either. I always

    Content. For me, custom menus and login matrix's aren't really "content". Back in the day, content that would draw callers was mainly messages, files, chat and games. If you don't have any content, a highly-customized BBS is just an empty house with fancy window dressing.

    Yes, you definitely need content too (I won't argue that). Although the look & feel isn't content, I tend to think it helps to have a BBS look unique. A unique look & feel can help someone remember your BBS; also, a sysop might have their own idea about what options they want on their menus and perhaps a unique idea about how they want their menu navigation to work, etc..

    The popular BBSes that I used to call the most were very "stock", but they had lots of users, tons of files, a message network or two that I didn't get anywhere else, or games that I wanted to play. And they were reliable. I never cared what ANSI may be displayed during/after login (frankly, the less the better). And apparently a lot of "callers" felt the same as me.
    --
    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #4:
    David St. Hubbins: He died in a bizarre gardening accident...
    Norco, CA WX: 51.8°F, 72.0% humidity, 7 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Rampage@SESTAR to Altere on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 04:30:17
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Altere to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 21:56:53


    Altere> [...] I'm no good a designing ansi menus, nor do I have the
    Altere> time. I would probably find a few hours to write my own shell
    Altere> if I could find someone to do the menus,

    what's wrong with coding the menus into the shell instead of having a separate file that also has to be edited if/when things change?


    )\/(ark

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Digital Man on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 21:21:00
    On 03-08-21 14:05, Digital Man wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I don't understand not wanting to customize it either. I always thought part of the whole point (and fun) of running a BBS was to make it different so you can offer something unique. I'm not sure why I'd run a BBS if I didn't have a desire to make something unique or an idea of some way to do so.

    Content. For me, custom menus and login matrix's aren't really
    "content". Back in the day, content that would draw callers was mainly messages, files, chat and games. If you don't have any content, a highly-customized BBS is just an empty house with fancy window
    dressing. --
    digital man

    I agree with you DM. I really hate working with UIs. That was the bane of coding, when I was writing code, and that was in the text only days, like BBSs.
    Anything even slightly artistic is a no go zone for me. While I admire customised BBSs as works of art of their creators, I really dislike the attitude of artistic elitism some have.

    My original BBS wasn't a work of art either, but what made it unique was the wide range of message networks that we carried - on pretty much any topic we could find, from general Fidonet and Othernet chats, to science, ham radio, the occult, Buddhism, LGBT, and many more. We also carried a wide range of gated Usenet newsgroups and Internet mailing lists. This diversity of messaging in one place was the BBS's unique attribute and drawcard. Any changes I made to the menus were purely for functional reasons, rather than aesthetic.

    There's more than one way of making a BBS unique, and custom menus are only one way.
    ... Shell to DOS, come in DOS, do you copy? Over...
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Nightfox on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 21:23:00
    On 03-08-21 19:09, Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-

    Yes, you definitely need content too (I won't argue that). Although
    the look & feel isn't content, I tend to think it helps to have a BBS
    look unique. A unique look & feel can help someone remember your BBS; also, a sysop might have their own idea about what options they want on their menus and perhaps a unique idea about how they want their menu navigation to work, etc..


    Yes, getting navigation to work right can be an artform in itself. That was one area of customisation I did partake in, because I liked to add functionality, and make it accessible to users in a way that made sense.


    ... :wq!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Icedawg@HERPDERP to MRO on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 10:42:08
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 12:32:26

    sadly, since 2000, half or more of synchronet's bbses have not had any customization or very little. i dont understand it.

    I'd guess it's a property of being easy to setup while not being particularly easy to customise.

    I found it a bit of a chore to figure out how to make all my desired small tweaks & only really managed for having the source code on hand (maybe docs tell everything I wanted to know somewhere though I didn't find that). I could easily see someone not bothering.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ HERP DERP BBS - herp.derp.org.org.za
  • From Marisag@AMIGAC to Tony Langdon on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 04:17:45
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Tony Langdon to Digital Man on Tue Mar 09 2021 21:21:00

    My original BBS wasn't a work of art either, but what made it unique was the wide range of message networks that we carried - on pretty much any topic we could find, from general Fidonet and Othernet chats, to science, ham radio, the occult, Buddhism, LGBT, and many more. We also carried a wide range of gated Usenet newsgroups and Internet mailing lists. This diversity of messaging in one place was the BBS's unique attribute and drawcard. Any changes I made to the menus were purely for functional reasons, rather than aesthetic.

    I have a new QWK network - WeedNet - https://weednet.baybuds.online

    Marisa
    --- https://SynchronetBBS.org/HostSplash - SBBS hosting for $14/month
    ■ Synchronet ■ Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 4,000+ files
  • From Alpha@ALPHACOM to Digital Man on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 14:15:02
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 09:05 pm

    Content. For me, custom menus and login matrix's aren't really
    "content". Back in the day, content that would draw callers was
    mainly messages, files, chat and games. If you don't have any
    content, a highly-customized BBS is just an empty house with fancy
    window dressing.

    Yes, you definitely need content too (I won't argue that). Although
    the look & feel isn't content, I tend to think it helps to have a BBS
    look unique. A unique look & feel can help someone remember your BBS;
    also, a sysop might have their own idea about what options they want
    on their menus and perhaps a unique idea about how they want their
    menu navigation to work, etc..

    The popular BBSes that I used to call the most were very "stock", but they had lots of users, tons of files, a message network or two that I didn't get anywhere else, or games that I wanted to play. And they were reliable. I never cared what ANSI may be displayed during/after login (frankly, the less the better). And apparently a lot of "callers" felt the same as me.

    I agree that once you get past the first couple ansi screens, it's all about content. Some sysops are skilled enough to excel at both, and when that happens, it's pretty special.

    My personal expectations for BBSing have changed for this current era, both as a user and a sysop. I see my BBSs as chances to learn and try something new, get to know a (networked) community--and create something unique. Learn more programming skills.

    And I really dig the UI customization part. I work in design in my day job, so it's something I've always had an interest in. But I really suck at the content part. I know that's a problem if I ever want to get other users to see my BBSs (which I'm not sure if I do TBH, not that big of a deal). I think a large portion of today's sysops like mw basically run a BBS as a personal node/entry into networked groups and games. Nothing wrong with that, it's a hobby, and I wouldn't discount the appeal of tinkering, either in functionality or UI. It's highly addictive for me :)

    I've also seen a new crop of sysops in my networks that understand the content part so much better than me--organizing and holding events, local games, unique and active local boards, custom mods, files, etc.--and they work really hard to provide the community something different, and increasingly, they know how to market their BBSs outside of the "normal" echo-ad channels. It's pretty cool and feels like something of a revival that's growing. Dig it.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ALPHACOMPLEX.US // Happiness is Mandatory. The Computer is Your Friend.
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Altere on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 08:25:34
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Altere to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 09:56 pm

    Once upon a time I had mine customized, own shell, menus, modified text.dat, guru.dat, etc.. Unfortunately, it all got lost and I'm no good a designing ansi menus, nor do I have the time. I would probably find a few hours to write my own shell if I could find someone to do the menus, but that hasn't seemed to work with a few posts here and there, even on the FB groups hasn't worked. Currently I just update, test a few things, report bugs, and read some groups.

    I've never been much of an artist myself. The menu ANSIs I've made are fairly simple.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Digital Man on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 08:26:39
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 09:05 pm

    The popular BBSes that I used to call the most were very "stock", but they had lots of users, tons of files, a message network or two that I didn't get anywhere else, or games that I wanted to play. And they were reliable. I never cared what ANSI may be displayed during/after login (frankly, the less the better). And apparently a lot of "callers" felt the same as me.

    Yeah, I don't really care for a bunch of ANSIs displayed after login. I tend to like to get right to the main menu after I log in.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Rampage on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 08:35:11
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Rampage to Altere on Tue Mar 09 2021 04:30 am

    Altere> [...] I'm no good a designing ansi menus, nor do I have the Altere> time. I would probably find a few hours to write my own shell Altere> if I could find someone to do the menus,

    what's wrong with coding the menus into the shell instead of having a separate file that also has to be edited if/when things change?

    You could have a shell output a menu screen, but if you want to change it, I think it would be more work to edit the command shell to change the menu screen. Normally, it's a best practice to separate the user interface with the logic, because that makes it easier to update things. If you want to edit the menu screen, it's much easier to load the ANSI into an ANSI editor to make changes rather than changing code in a command shell to change the menu screen.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Rampage@SESTAR to Nightfox on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 12:00:01
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nightfox to Rampage on Tue Mar 09 2021 08:35:11


    what's wrong with coding the menus into the shell instead of
    having a separate file that also has to be edited if/when things
    change?

    Nightfox> You could have a shell output a menu screen, but if you want
    Nightfox> to change it, I think it would be more work to edit the
    Nightfox> command shell to change the menu screen. Normally, it's a
    Nightfox> best practice to separate the user interface with the logic,
    Nightfox> because that makes it easier to update things. If you want
    Nightfox> to edit the menu screen, it's much easier to load the ANSI
    Nightfox> into an ANSI editor to make changes rather than changing
    Nightfox> code in a command shell to change the menu screen.

    ummm... you still have to edit BOTH if you are adding a new option or changing keys...

    i'm also thinking of like RA BBS where i used only the menu editor and never any external menu ANSI files... i edited the menus in the menu editor and RA drew everything as desired... no mucking about with ANSI editors at
    all...


    )\/(ark

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Icedawg on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 08:37:56
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Icedawg to MRO on Tue Mar 09 2021 10:42 am

    sadly, since 2000, half or more of synchronet's bbses have not had
    any customization or very little. i dont understand it.

    I'd guess it's a property of being easy to setup while not being particularly easy to customise.

    I found it a bit of a chore to figure out how to make all my desired small tweaks & only really managed for having the source code on hand (maybe docs tell everything I wanted to know somewhere though I didn't find that). I could easily see someone not bothering.

    I think the biggest thing with Synchronet for me was when I initially realized there's no traditional menu editor, and the only way to customize the menus & menu behavior was to write a custom command shell.

    I tend not to change the source code though. Any change you make to the source code on your system will have to be re-applied when you update to a newer version of Synchronet. I'd think that would be a hassle, especially if some part of Synchronet's code ever gets significantly re-written. Thankfully, Synchronet is fairly moddable with custom JS scripts, text.dat, etc.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Rampage on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 12:33:12
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Rampage to Nightfox on Tue Mar 09 2021 12:00 pm

    Nightfox> You could have a shell output a menu screen, but if you want Nightfox> to change it, I think it would be more work to edit the Nightfox> command shell to change the menu screen. Normally, it's a

    ummm... you still have to edit BOTH if you are adding a new option or changing keys...

    Yes, that's true.. I was saying it would probably be more difficult to also edit the command shell to draw the screen, rather than load the screen in an ANSI editor and make the change that way.

    i'm also thinking of like RA BBS where i used only the menu editor and never any external menu ANSI files... i edited the menus in the menu editor and RA drew everything as desired... no mucking about with ANSI editors at all...

    Yes, RA can do that. From what I remember, RA dynamically outputted menu screens without ANSI files by default. But from what I remember, they were extremely basic, pretty much just lists of commands. If you want to do anything more complex for your menu screen, I think it would be easier to have an ANSI file you can edit separately.

    Usually I think it's good to at least have sets of commands visually grouped together, using ANSI line drawing characters etc.. If you want any kind of ANSI graphics characters, I just think it would be easier to edit it in a separate ANSI file rather than have your command shell progrmamatically draw those kinds of things.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Boondock@ELGATO to Marisag on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 17:25:00
    Marisag wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I have a new QWK network - WeedNet - https://weednet.baybuds.online
    How do we sign up ?

    ... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from El Gato de Fuego * The Fire Cat * elgato.synchronetbbs.org
  • From Altere@ATHEL to Rampage on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 16:09:01
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Rampage to Altere on Tue Mar 09 2021 04:30 am

    Altere> [...] I'm no good a designing ansi menus, nor do I have the Altere> time. I would probably find a few hours to write my own shell Altere> if I could find someone to do the menus,

    what's wrong with coding the menus into the shell instead of having a separate file that also has to be edited if/when things change?

    I suppose nothing, if that's how you want to do it, it's just not something I would do and isn't the point of me not liking my own ansi's. lol

    -altere

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Athelstan BBS ■ athelstan.org ■ telnet:23 / ssh:2222
  • From Altere@ATHEL to Nightfox on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 16:14:12
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nightfox to Altere on Tue Mar 09 2021 08:25 am

    text.dat, guru.dat, etc.. Unfortunately, it all got lost and I'm no
    good a designing ansi menus, nor do I have the time. I would
    probably find a few hours to write my own shell if I could find

    I've never been much of an artist myself. The menu ANSIs I've made are fairly simple.

    I'm absolutely horrible at it and get frustrated way to quick with ansi. If anyone knows someone that does good ANSI, I can jot down all the keys and wording if they can make a few spiffy customer ANSIs. I gave up on finding someone and it's not on my top list of things do to.

    -altere

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Athelstan BBS ■ athelstan.org ■ telnet:23 / ssh:2222
  • From Digital Man to Altere on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 17:49:53
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Altere to Nightfox on Tue Mar 09 2021 04:14 pm

    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nightfox to Altere on Tue Mar 09 2021 08:25 am

    text.dat, guru.dat, etc.. Unfortunately, it all got lost and I'm no
    good a designing ansi menus, nor do I have the time. I would
    probably find a few hours to write my own shell if I could find

    I've never been much of an artist myself. The menu ANSIs I've made are fairly simple.

    I'm absolutely horrible at it and get frustrated way to quick with ansi. If anyone knows someone that does good ANSI, I can jot down all the keys and wording if they can make a few spiffy customer ANSIs. I gave up on finding someone and it's not on my top list of things do to.

    If/when it is again, see https://wiki.synchro.net/resource:ansi_artwork
    --
    digital man

    Sling Blade quote #23:
    Karl: I reckon I'm gonna have to get used to looking at pretty people.
    Norco, CA WX: 53.6°F, 62.0% humidity, 2 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Altere@ATHEL to Digital Man on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 20:31:23
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to Altere on Tue Mar 09 2021 05:49 pm

    I'm absolutely horrible at it and get frustrated way to quick with
    ansi. If anyone knows someone that does good ANSI, I can jot down all
    the keys and wording if they can make a few spiffy customer ANSIs. I
    gave up on finding someone and it's not on my top list of things do
    to.

    If/when it is again, see https://wiki.synchro.net/resource:ansi_artwork

    I haven't tried ansigarden but know I tried to contact blocktronics on fb, and even sent a msg to a few members direct with no luck on a response, there was another group as well that didn't get a response either. I might give it a go again soon and see what happens. I just want a single intro and custom menus so should be fairly easy for a seasoned ANSi artist. I'll circle back to this link when I have a little more time.

    -altere

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Athelstan BBS ■ athelstan.org ■ telnet:23 / ssh:2222
  • From Dream Master@CIAD to MRO on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 18:39:00
    MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-

    @TZ: 4168
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nightfox to Tim Whitson on Mon Mar 08 2021 08:28 am

    sadly, since 2000, half or more of synchronet's bbses have not had
    any customization or very little. i dont understand it.

    i never saw it on this scale with any other bbs software
    i saw it a few times with wildcat!

    It comes down to the reward of building out new menus and interfaces. If you are spending the time, you hope people will logon and see what you've created. I've actually been tempted to hire out someone to revamp my menus and screens to
    work "better" for me.


    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Dream Master@CIAD to Digital Man on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 18:41:00
    Digital Man wrote to Nightfox <=-

    @TZ: 41e0
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Mar 08 2021 12:55
    pm

    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 12:32 pm
    Content. For me, custom menus and login matrix's aren't really
    "content". Back in the day, content that would draw callers was
    mainly messages, files, chat and games. If you don't have any
    content, a highly-customized BBS is just an empty house with fancy
    window dressing.

    Exactly. If you don't offer a product that people want, what's the point of logging on everywhere to find it. For example, the draw for me was always messaging, doors, and chatting. If I can't find what I'm looking for, I won't stick around. If I can, I'll be logging on for good.


    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Digital Man to Altere on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 19:30:52
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Altere to Digital Man on Tue Mar 09 2021 08:31 pm

    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to Altere on Tue Mar 09 2021 05:49 pm

    I'm absolutely horrible at it and get frustrated way to quick with
    ansi. If anyone knows someone that does good ANSI, I can jot down all
    the keys and wording if they can make a few spiffy customer ANSIs. I
    gave up on finding someone and it's not on my top list of things do
    to.

    If/when it is again, see https://wiki.synchro.net/resource:ansi_artwork

    I haven't tried ansigarden but know I tried to contact blocktronics on fb, and even sent a msg to a few members direct with no luck on a response, there was another group as well that didn't get a response either. I might give it a go again soon and see what happens. I just want a single intro and custom menus so should be fairly easy for a seasoned ANSi artist. I'll circle back to this link when I have a little more time.

    ansigarden has ready-to-download themes (just a few "screens" each, iirc) - and you'll still have to load them into an editor (e.g. PabloDraw) and add your menu items or text, but at least the artwork part is done. And they're not free.
    --
    digital man

    Rush quote #10:
    To you, is it movement or is it action? Is it contact or just reaction?
    Norco, CA WX: 50.6°F, 74.0% humidity, 2 mph NW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From nolageek@CAPSHRIL to Altere on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 23:14:48
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Altere to Nightfox on Tue Mar 09 2021 04:14 pm

    I'm absolutely horrible at it and get frustrated way to quick with ansi. If anyone knows someone that does good ANSI, I can jot down all the keys and wording if they can make a few spiffy customer ANSIs. I gave up on

    Are you on Discord? There's a number of Servers for the different ANSI groups and they usually have a Requests channel. Or pop in one of the ANSI facebook groups. There is usually a couple of folks who will do a banner/logo style menu.

    |01-|03nolageek

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Capitol Shrill BBS - Washington, DC - capitolshrill.com
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Marisag on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 20:56:00
    On 03-09-21 04:17, Marisag wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I have a new QWK network - WeedNet - https://weednet.baybuds.online

    Cool, now that's not one we had back in the day. :) While it's not legal here, other than very limited medical uses, I can see that changing in time. Might check it out sometime, I've had some interesting discussions on the subject.


    ... You say money can't make me happy? Prove it to me.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Boondock on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 21:16:00
    On 03-09-21 17:25, Boondock wrote to Marisag <=-

    Marisag wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I have a new QWK network - WeedNet - https://weednet.baybuds.online
    How do we sign up ?

    Follow the link, didn't take me long to find the instructions. :)


    ... Coming Soon!! Mouse Support for Edlin!!!!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Mortifis@MUSEUM to Tony Langdon on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 08:04:23
    On 03-09-21 17:25, Boondock wrote to Marisag <=-

    Marisag wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I have a new QWK network - WeedNet - https://weednet.baybuds.online
    How do we sign up ?

    Follow the link, didn't take me long to find the instructions. :)


    yup, took all of 5 minutes to follow the link, read the instructions and scfg everything to pull in 7 messages :-)

    Looking forward to seeing what comes through

    ~mortifis

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ AlleyCat! BBS Game Server rlogin://alleycatbbs.com:5513
  • From Boondock@ELGATO to Tony Langdon on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 06:41:00
    Tony Langdon wrote to Boondock <=-
    Follow the link, didn't take me long to find the instructions. :)
    Gotcha!

    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from El Gato de Fuego * The Fire Cat * elgato.synchronetbbs.org
  • From Tracker1@TRN to Nightfox on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 12:00:46
    On 3/6/2021 4:04 PM, Nightfox wrote:

    I first found out about Synchronet in 2007, and it had
    already been using JS at the time. My first couple mods
    (including my custom command shell) were in Baja, but I
    soon started using Synchronet's JS model and haven't
    looked back. I also re-wrote my command shell in JS.
    I thought it was a bit funny that a JS command shell
    still needs a one-liner Baja module to run the JS script. :)

    Was in a fairly similar position around 2002 myself. Shortly after JS
    was added, I started playing with it... my first shell (S3) had several callouts to execute Baja commands (IIRC file areas).

    I did put my command shell baja with a pause/loop so that I could ctrl-c
    in my shell to load a new one while working on it. I also bailed if the command shell changed coming back from user settings.

    Jump (global) menus were pretty painful, and I don't think I have a copy
    of my chat menu mods from back then. Would like to get my system back
    in order again. I think at one point I had the most modded sync system
    out there...

    Right now, damned near stock.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Digital Man on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 18:58:22
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 09:05 pm

    The popular BBSes that I used to call the most were very "stock", but they had lots of users, tons of files, a message network or two that I didn't get anywhere else, or games that I wanted to play. And they were reliable. I never cared what ANSI may be displayed during/after login (frankly, the less the better). And apparently a lot of "callers" felt the same as me.

    that's totally different than my experience with bbses from 91+
    if bbses were stock they didnt get any calls.
    infact, sinced the sysop didnt put any effort into customization, there was nothing else in regards to files, msgs or games.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Icedawg on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 19:01:23
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Icedawg to MRO on Tue Mar 09 2021 10:42 am

    sadly, since 2000, half or more of synchronet's bbses have not had any customization or very little. i dont understand it.

    I'd guess it's a property of being easy to setup while not being particularly easy to customise.

    I found it a bit of a chore to figure out how to make all my desired small tweaks & only really managed for having the source code on hand (maybe docs tell everything I wanted to know somewhere though I didn't find that). I could easily see someone not bothering.

    well i ran renegade and iniquity and i switched to synchronet because it was stable. i was trying to run a bbs with fucking netmodem [the bad one] and it wouldnt stay up longer than an hour.

    if an idiot like me can figure out how to do all that i've done with synchronet, anybody can. i made it do what i wanted it to do.
    you dont need the source code. you just have to look at the mods and learn from the examples.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Rampage on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 19:02:29
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Rampage to Nightfox on Tue Mar 09 2021 12:00 pm


    ummm... you still have to edit BOTH if you are adding a new option or changing keys...

    i'm also thinking of like RA BBS where i used only the menu editor and never any external menu ANSI files... i edited the menus in the menu editor and RA drew everything as desired... no mucking about with ANSI editors at
    all...

    that sounds shitty.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 19:03:37
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Nightfox to Icedawg on Tue Mar 09 2021 08:37 am

    I tend not to change the source code though. Any change you make to the source code on your system will have to be re-applied when you update to a newer version of Synchronet. I'd think that would be a hassle, especially if some part of Synchronet's code ever gets significantly re-written. Thankfully, Synchronet is fairly moddable with custom JS scripts, text.dat, etc.

    anybody here can take the renegade command shell and figure out how to add new commands to it and see where the ansi files go.

    then they are pretty much done. then you install a few doors, have a msghdr, change the colors in text.dat and you're good.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Altere on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 19:06:16
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Altere to Digital Man on Tue Mar 09 2021 08:31 pm

    I haven't tried ansigarden but know I tried to contact blocktronics on fb, and even sent a msg to a few members direct with no luck on a response, there was another group as well that didn't get a response either. I might give it a go again soon and see what happens. I just want a single intro and custom menus so should be fairly easy for a seasoned ANSi artist. I'll circle back to this link when I have a little more time.


    cleaner is a good guy. (from ansilove)
    his fonts are usually large, though.

    you can just get a good thedraw font and figure something out usually.

    or get real old ansi packs and borrow parts of old ansis
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Digital Man to MRO on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 18:59:57
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Mar 10 2021 06:58 pm

    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Mar 08 2021 09:05 pm

    The popular BBSes that I used to call the most were very "stock", but they had lots of users, tons of files, a message network or two that I didn't get anywhere else, or games that I wanted to play. And they were reliable. I never cared what ANSI may be displayed during/after login (frankly, the less the better). And apparently a lot of "callers" felt the same as me.

    that's totally different than my experience with bbses from 91+
    if bbses were stock they didnt get any calls.
    infact, sinced the sysop didnt put any effort into customization, there was nothing else in regards to files, msgs or games.

    Yup, you and I had totally different experiences apparently. The biggest 'warez' and chat boards were pretty univerally stock/simple and the sysops focused on the content.
    --
    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #3:
    ASCII = American Standard Code for Information Interchange
    Norco, CA WX: 45.7°F, 88.0% humidity, 0 mph S wind, 0.31 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Mortifis on Thursday, March 11, 2021 20:52:00
    On 03-10-21 08:04, Mortifis wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    yup, took all of 5 minutes to follow the link, read the instructions
    and scfg everything to pull in 7 messages :-)

    Looking forward to seeing what comes through

    Cool, I've been busier than a 1 legged person in an arse kicking contest. :)


    ... OOPS I didn't know my screen would do that!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Thursday, March 11, 2021 08:03:07
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Wed Mar 10 2021 12:00 pm

    Jump (global) menus were pretty painful, and I don't think I have a copy of my chat menu mods from back then. Would like to get my system back

    I have some global menu navigation commands in my shell. I had designed my original RemoteAccess BBS in the 90s with global navigation commands and wanted to carry that over to my Synchronet BBS. I think it's nice to be able to jump around to anywhere rather than have to go back to the main menu to then go somewhere else.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@REALITY to MRO on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 07:41:00
    MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-

    sadly, since 2000, half or more of synchronet's bbses have not had any customization or very little. i dont understand it.

    The stock menu structure is pretty nice. I liked having all of the options available from one menu instead of having separate file and message menus.

    I did some work to pretty up the stock menu at first and liked it, but had network ops that whose networks I wanted to join complain that mine was "too stock".

    Now, I'm running a couple of ANSI headers and a mod of a legacy menu system
    as my primary, with the modded stock Sync menu as an option, I wonder if I'm automatically more l337 now?






    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@REALITY to Nightfox on Tuesday, March 09, 2021 08:32:00
    Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

    I always enjoyed using <BBS name>, run by that well known guy, Sysop.

    The one run by Sye-Sop, or Siss-op?




    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@REALITY to MRO on Thursday, March 11, 2021 06:01:00
    MRO wrote to Digital Man <=-

    that's totally different than my experience with bbses from 91+
    if bbses were stock they didnt get any calls.
    infact, sinced the sysop didnt put any effort into customization, there was nothing else in regards to files, msgs or games.

    I had the opposite experience - I recall completely stock Opus boards that
    had the entire Fido backbone on it.


    ... Convert a melodic element into a rhythmic element
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, March 11, 2021 14:06:27
    Re: Re: Synchronet questions
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Mar 09 2021 08:32 am

    I always enjoyed using <BBS name>, run by that well known guy,
    Sysop.

    The one run by Sye-Sop, or Siss-op?

    In one of the interviews in BBS: The Documentary, I remember someone saying they preferred saying "Sye-Sop" because the other pronunciation sounds too much like "sissy op".

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@TRN to Altere on Thursday, March 11, 2021 17:47:04
    On 3/8/2021 8:56 PM, Altere wrote:
    Once upon a time I had mine customized, own shell, menus,
    modified text.dat, guru.dat, etc.. Unfortunately, it all got
    lost and I'm no good a designing ansi menus, nor do I have
    the time. I would probably find a few hours to write my own
    shell if I could find someone to do the menus, but that
    hasn't seemed to work with a few posts here and there, even
    on the FB groups hasn't worked. Currently I just update,
    test a few things, report bugs, and read some groups.

    Would suggest snagging all the freebies at ansigarden.com and starting there... maybe consider some of the paid themes or ansi.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@TRN to Rampage on Thursday, March 11, 2021 17:49:50
    On 3/9/2021 2:30 AM, Rampage wrote:

    what's wrong with coding the menus into the shell instead of
    having a separate file that also has to be edited if/when
    things change?

    You certainly *can* do that... it will become difficult to maintain or
    update that way. Also, differences for ascii/ansi and if you choose RIP
    will become interestingly difficult as well.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com