alo?!!?
Is anyone from z4 receiving this?
80/1 90/1 103/705 124/5016 153/757 154/30 203/0 221/0 1 6
240/1120 5832 280/464 5003 5555 292/789 854 8125 301/1 310/31
335/364 341/66 200 234 396/45 423/120 460/58 463/68 467/888
633/280 712/848 770/1 902/26 5020/400
Is anyone from z4 receiving this?
Ward Dossche wrote to Fernando Toledo <=-
There's also substantial khrap in the ZONE4-segment, for example
...
;A Region 90: http://www.momiabbs.com.ar (Spanish)
I think there is no "http://www.momiabbs.com.ar" at all.
Plus ...
;S Zone Mail Hour
;S --------------
;S
;S Zone 5 mail hour (01:00 - 02:00 UTC)
;S Zone 2 mail hour (02:30 - 03:30 UTC)
;S Zone 4 mail hour (08:00 - 09:00 UTC)
;S Zone 1 mail hour (09:00 - 10:00 UTC)
;S Zone 3 mail hour (17:00 - 18:00 UTC)
;S Zone 6 mail hour (20:00 - 21:00 UTC)
* Zone-5 was removed 12 years ago from the nodelist
* Zone-6 was removed 17 years ago from the nodelist
I stopped being bothered by it because it seems impossible to get
anything changed/corrected in Z4 for decades.
Don't the sysops have a sense of pride or achievement to get
things done properly?
WD> Don't the sysops have a sense of pride or achievement to get
WD> things done properly?
Apparently they don't.
I suggest you start by firing the asshole, and put somebody in there
that wants to actually do the job.
Things *can* be cleaned up.
El 18/2/24 a las 23:38, Dan Clough escribió:You touch it, you own it. Congratulations ;)
WD> Don't the sysops have a sense of pride or achievement to get
WD> things done properly?
Apparently they don't.
I suggest you start by firing the asshole, and put somebody in there
that wants to actually do the job.
Things *can* be cleaned up.
I am going to investigate how to apply as a ZC
thanks!
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Dock Sud BBS - https://bbs.docksud.com.ar (4:902/26)
I suggest you start by firing the asshole, and put somebody in there
that wants to actually do the job.
I am going to investigate how to apply as a ZC
I am going to investigate how to apply as a ZC
The job needs to be vacant, then you need an election by the RCs.
Basically the current ZC has to un-elect himself. Talk to Manuel, I think he is pretty decent and open to the idea ... with only 3 RCs in the region it could be managed quick ... well, that is if John Dovey in Panama is still breathing.
The job needs to be vacant, then you need an election by the RCs.
Basically the current ZC has to un-elect himself.
If that fails there is the last resort of the impeachment procedure documented in P4 8.7.
The IC has a role in in, but it is the RCs that must initiate it. That
may be a bit of a challenge with only one out of four RCs being reachable...
If that fails there is the last resort of the impeachment
procedure documented in P4 8.7.
I know about that but it has never been done and, my opinion, it's not
a good time to start doing that now.
The IC has a role in in, but it is the RCs that must initiate it.
That may be a bit of a challenge with only one out of four RCs being
reachable...
It also makes an election easy...
I am going to investigate how to apply as a ZC
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
I suggest you start by firing the asshole, and put somebody in there
that wants to actually do the job.
Somebody with a distinct law degree and a beautiful little
daughter is not exactly an asshole.
The zones are autonomous in selecting their ZC ... P4 is clear
about that. The IC cannot do anything about it ...
Alas.
Ward Dossche wrote to Michiel van der Vlist <=-
If that fails there is the last resort of the impeachment procedure documented in P4 8.7.
I know about that but it has never been done and, my opinion,
it's not a good time to start doing that now.
If a person at any level above sysop is unable to properly perform
their duties, the person at the next level may replace them. For
example, if a Regional Coordinator fails to perform, the Zone
Coordinator can replace him.
Does that not imply that the ZCC (and/or the IC) cannot replace a ZC? Seems like it does, to me. Perhaps worth a discussion amongst the
ZCC.
4:80/0 fido.rbt.net.br:24554 35.192.92.175 Ok.
4:80/1 fido.rbt.net.br:24554 35.192.92.175 Error: Socket read error.
4:80/0 fido.rbt.net.br:24554 35.192.92.175 Ok.
4:80/1 fido.rbt.net.br:24554 35.192.92.175 Error: Socket read error.
:-m
Hello Fernando,
On Monday February 19 2024 01:06, you wrote to Dan Clough:
FT> I am going to investigate how to apply as a ZC
4:902/26 bbs.docksud.com.ar:24554 2803:9800:a015:831e:523e:aaff:fe0f:fb01 Ok.
I see you are back on IPv6. Great! I will put you back on the list.
Nodelist for Monday, February 19, 2024 -- Day number 050 parsed, 29 IP-nodes processed (0.009 sec)
4:4/0 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.121.152 Error: Connection timed out 4:80/0 fido.rbt.net.br:24554 35.192.92.175 Ok.
4:80/1 fido.rbt.net.br:24554 35.192.92.175 Error: Socket read error.
4:88/0 mastodontbbs.hopto.org:24554 181.162.198.58 Error: Connection timed out
4:90/0 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.121.152 Error: Connection timed out 4:90/1 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.121.152 Error: Connection timed out 4:92/0 gatofuego.synchronetbbs.org:24554 104.200.24.109 Error: Connection timed out
4:92/1 gatofuego.synchronetbbs.org:24554 104.200.24.109 Error: Connection timed out
4:801/0 fido.rbt.net.br:24554 35.192.92.175 Ok.
4:801/10 softsolutions.net.br:24554 177.23.233.122 Ok.
4:801/189 bsbbs.com.br:24554 179.180.145.169 Error: Connection timed out 4:801/197 bbs.rclabs.com.br:24554 85.208.48.115 Ok.
4:801/200 rmsbbs.ddns.net:24554 179.190.142.218 Ok.
4:801/202 baffa.zapto.org:24554 187.79.81.18 Ok.
4:880/0 mastodontbbs.hopto.org:24554 181.162.198.58 Error: Connection timed out
4:880/1 mastodontbbs.hopto.org:24554 181.162.198.58 Error: Connection timed out
4:900/0 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.121.152 Error: Connection timed out 4:900/100 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.121.152 Error: Connection timed out
4:900/102 thevaultbbs.ddns.net:24554 190.111.203.94 Ok.
4:900/107 darkgame.buanzo.org:24554 31.193.168.246 Error: Connection refused 4:900/108 zooropabbs.ddns.net:24554 181.45.26.197 Error: Connection timed out 4:902/0 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.121.152 Error: Connection timed out 4:902/7 reisub.nsupdate.info:24554 181.12.214.46 Ok.
4:902/19 ferchobbs.ddns.net:24554 181.23.124.217 Error: Connection timed out
4:902/26 bbs.docksud.com.ar:24554 2803:9800:a015:831e:523e:aaff:fe0f:fb01 Ok.
4:902/26 bbs.docksud.com.ar:24554 186.123.101.23 Ok.
4:902/27 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.121.152 Error: Connection timed out
4:902/100 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.121.152 Error: Connection timed out
4:920/0 gatofuego.synchronetbbs.org:24554 104.200.24.109 Error: Connection timed out
4:920/1 gatofuego.synchronetbbs.org:24554 104.200.24.109 Error: Connection timed out
So John Dovey is currently not connectable.
Of course this is just one moment in time, it might change in the future hours/days...
Btw: I count 4 RC's. Of which only 1 is connectable right now...
If a person at any level above sysop is unable to properly perform their duties, the person at the next level may replace them. For example, if a Regional Coordinator fails to perform, the Zone Coordinator can replace him.
Does that not imply that the ZCC (and/or the IC) cannot replace a ZC?
Seems like it does, to me. Perhaps worth a discussion amongst the ZCC.
Alas.
Don't give up hope, yet.
It's hard to imagine a scenario where there could be a better time.
So John Dovey is currently not connectable.
Of course this is just one moment in time, it might change in the future
hours/days...
Btw: I count 4 RC's. Of which only 1 is connectable right now...
this is not good =(
4:88/0 mastodontbbs.hopto.org:24554 181.162.215.135 Error: Connection timed out16,17c16,17
4:880/0 mastodontbbs.hopto.org:24554 181.162.215.135 Error: Connection timed out22c22
4:880/1 mastodontbbs.hopto.org:24554 181.162.215.135 Error: Connection timed out
4:900/108 zooropabbs.ddns.net:24554 52.4.41.44 Error: Connection timed out24c24
4:902/7 reisub.nsupdate.info:24554 181.91.5.227 Ok.
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
If a person at any level above sysop is unable to properly perform their duties, the person at the next level may replace them. For example, if a Regional Coordinator fails to perform, the Zone Coordinator can replace him.
It doesn't work in the case of the ZC if the RCs don't follow ...
an IC is a toothless tiger if the ZCC does not operate as 'one'.
Does that not imply that the ZCC (and/or the IC) cannot replace a ZC? Seems like it does, to me. Perhaps worth a discussion amongst the ZCC.
Talk to whom there? Nick will respond but other than that there's
a lot of echo.
Don't give up hope, yet.
I can tell you about not giving up hope against all odds ...
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
It's hard to imagine a scenario where there could be a better time.
Let me try it another way, suppose as IC I would decide to
replace ZC1 just like that.
How successful do you think I would be?
The IC is a toothless tiger ... that has been demonstrated in the
past.
this is not good =(
I did another test today. Some IP numbers changed, but not the connection test results.
;S Zone 5 mail hour (01:00 - 02:00 UTC)
;S Zone 6 mail hour (20:00 - 21:00 UTC)
* Zone-5 was removed 12 years ago from the nodelist
* Zone-6 was removed 17 years ago from the nodelist
I stopped being bothered by it because it seems impossible to get anything changed/corrected in Z4 for decades.
Don't the sysops have a sense of pride or achievement to get things
done properly?
just not hope fidonet will end as one single node to whole fidonet
Benny,
just not hope fidonet will end as one single node to whole fidonet
At some point it just will stop operating and very little will be
left, even the description in Wikipedia is way overdue ...
There is no growth and eventually the last active sysop will die and no-one will be there to notice it ... they will be busy on some silly forum showing silly 20-second dance moves that only 14-yr olds are interested in.
Benny,
just not hope fidonet will end as one single node to whole fidonet
At some point it just will stop operating and very little will be left, even the description in Wikipedia is way overdue ...
There is no growth and eventually the last active sysop will die and no-one will be there to notice it ... they will be busy on some silly forum showing silly 20-second dance moves that only 14-yr olds are interested in.
\%/@rd
--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
this is not good =(
I did another test today. Some IP numbers changed, but not the
connection test results.
I did another test.
The ZC4 system is connectable today:
4:4/0 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.54.97 Ok.
But has a few AKA issues:
4:900/0 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.54.97 No such AKA.
4:900/100 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.54.97 No such AKA.
4:902/27 momiabbs.no-ip.info:24554 181.229.54.97 No such AKA.
2 Other systems are now offline:
4:801/10 softsolutions.net.br:24554 177.23.233.122 Error: Connection timed out
4:900/102 thevaultbbs.ddns.net:24554 190.111.203.94 Error: Connection timed out
Unfortunately in the Z4 they are all inert. Nobody has an interest in improving something, or at least keeping the current thing working well. The ZC hasn't changed anything for 10 years and no one changes to the ZC
=(
I try all the time to test software, to see what can be improved. IPv6, helping others try Fido and promoting it. But I'm completely alone in
that.
Ward Dossche wrote to Fernando Toledo <=-
Unfortunately in the Z4 they are all inert. Nobody has an interest in improving something, or at least keeping the current thing working well. The ZC hasn't changed anything for 10 years and no one changes to the ZC =(
If you are of the opinion that change is overdue, then now is as
good a time as ever to initiate change.
If you are dissatisfied and of the belief that another ZC could
do a better job, then get the ball rolling. But there is a
challenge: an impeachment procedure of a zone-coordinator has
never been attempted that I know of. Plus in Z4 there are 4
listed RCs of which 2 are absent. Of the remaining 2 which are
technically functional one is the ZC himself so unless he votes
against himself provided he wakes up, then I fear the chances of
achieving it are close to nothing.
Another possibility is to create one or several IP-only orphan
nets and have these accomodated in a region in another zone. Talk
to the International Coordinator about this and see how he feels
about that.
There was talk quite recently about this, and somebody... <ahem> seemed
to
imply that it wasn't possible, or that it "hadn't been long enough" that the existing ZC was AWOL...
If there are only 2 RCs left, doesn't 1 of them make a majority/quorum? It's my opinion that it does. With the circumstances thrown in (obvious neglect / disappearance), it pretty much is beyond question.
Okay, let's do that. Wave the magic wand, dissolve Z4, and put the survivors in Z3, with Fernando as the RC. Done.
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
There was talk quite recently about this, and somebody... <ahem> seemed
to imply that it wasn't possible, or that it "hadn't been long enough" that the existing ZC was AWOL...
Again some *C I expect not willing to face reality ... do I know
him/her?
If there are only 2 RCs left, doesn't 1 of them make a majority/quorum? It's my opinion that it does. With the circumstances thrown in (obvious neglect / disappearance), it pretty much is beyond question.
P4 mentions that a majority is more than 50% of those voting. If
there are 2 RCs 'live' and one votes and the otherone not, then
there is no majority.
Okay, let's do that. Wave the magic wand, dissolve Z4, and put the survivors in Z3, with Fernando as the RC. Done.
* Dissolving Z4 are your words, not mine
* Adding orphaned nets to R34 would linguistically make more
sense * Although Z3 is a live entity, reaching its ZC can be a
challenge as well,
but at least he replies after a while and acts upon things.
* "we" are not involved, it must come from Z4-sysops
alo?!!?
Is anyone from z4 receiving this?
I think there is no "http://www.momiabbs.com.ar" at all.
;S Zone Mail Hour
;S --------------
;S
;S Zone 5 mail hour (01:00 - 02:00 UTC)
;S Zone 2 mail hour (02:30 - 03:30 UTC)
;S Zone 4 mail hour (08:00 - 09:00 UTC)
;S Zone 1 mail hour (09:00 - 10:00 UTC)
;S Zone 3 mail hour (17:00 - 18:00 UTC)
;S Zone 6 mail hour (20:00 - 21:00 UTC)
Don't the sysops have a sense of pride or achievement to get things done properly?
Basically the current ZC has to un-elect himself. Talk to Manuel, I
think he is pretty decent and open to the idea ... with only 3 RCs in
the region it could be managed quick ... well, that is if John Dovey in Panama is still breathing.
If that fails there is the last resort of the impeachment procedure documented in P4 8.7.
The IC has a role in in, but it is the RCs that must initiate it. That
may be a bit of a challenge with only one out of four RCs being reachable...
When I test it separately, it's OK:
I dont have news from John Dovey too. I think that is offline at Fido.
The another RC is Flavio Bessa and He is using a secondary link because via 4:90/1 also had problems previously.
Unfortunately in the Z4 they are all inert. Nobody has an interest in improving something, or at least keeping the current thing working well. The ZC hasn't changed anything for 10 years and no one changes to the ZC =(
I try all the time to test software, to see what can be improved. IPv6, helping others try Fido and promoting it. But I'm completely alone in
I did another test.
4:801/10 softsolutions.net.br:24554 177.23.233.122Error: WvV> Connection timed out
4:801/189 bsbbs.com.br:24554 179.180.145.169 Error: Connection timed out
I think that John has shut down his system... He is now travelling
over South Africa and his BBS seem to be down.
Well, then obviously his presence in the nodelist, of lack there-of,
needs to be managed one way or the other ... Failing that Z4 will
contain inactive regions with closed-down nodes and a ZC not dealing
with it.
Even in the closed ZCC-echo among ZCs the ZC4 is absent. Last sign of
life Jan 22 2022. But I see Manuel on and of on Facebook.
Ward Dossche wrote to Flavio Bessa <=-
I think that John has shut down his system... He is now travelling
over South Africa and his BBS seem to be down.
Well, then obviously his presence in the nodelist, of lack
there-of, needs to be managed one way or the other ... Failing
that Z4 will contain inactive regions with closed-down nodes and
a ZC not dealing with it.
Even in the closed ZCC-echo among ZCs the ZC4 is absent. Last
sign of life Jan 22 2022. But I see Manuel on and of on Facebook.
Ward Dossche wrote to Michiel van der Vlist <=-
Mv> If that fails there is the last resort of the impeachment procedure
Mv> documented in P4 8.7.
WD> I know about that but it has never been done and, my opinion,
WD> it's not a good time to start doing that now.
It's hard to imagine a scenario where there could be a better time.
I mean, the ZC and 3 of the 4 RC's are not connectable? Why isn't that
a "good time to start"? It needs to be done.
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
DC> It's hard to imagine a scenario where there could be a better time.
WD> Let me try it another way, suppose as IC I would decide to
WD> replace ZC1 just like that.
That would be a whole 'nother situation, and that replacement would not
be justified. The difference here, of course, is that the ZC in
question has disappeared and is un-reachable. Seems like reasonable
time and effort has been dispensed in *TRYING* to reach him. At what
point does that unacceptable behavior (and Zone status) become something
that needs decisive action to correct? Is it allowed to go on
indefinitely? Seems stupid to allow that, as it clearly is not good for
the health of FidoNet.
WD> How successful do you think I would be?
Not very, for reasons discussed just above. There's no defend-able
reason to replace that ZC, but there is for the other.
WD> The IC is a toothless tiger ... that has been demonstrated in the
WD> past.
There's an old saying that I've heard (and used a few times): Sometimes
it's better to ask forgiveness than to seek permission. I don't see how anyone in FidoNet would think this (replacing the AWOL ZC) is not a
justified and necessary action. It's for the betterment of FidoNet.
Fernando Toledo wrote to Dan Clough <=-
El 22/2/24 a las 00:08, Dan Clough escribió:
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
DC> It's hard to imagine a scenario where there could be a better time.
WD> Let me try it another way, suppose as IC I would decide to
WD> replace ZC1 just like that.
That would be a whole 'nother situation, and that replacement would not
be justified. The difference here, of course, is that the ZC in
question has disappeared and is un-reachable. Seems like reasonable
time and effort has been dispensed in *TRYING* to reach him. At what
point does that unacceptable behavior (and Zone status) become something that needs decisive action to correct? Is it allowed to go on
indefinitely? Seems stupid to allow that, as it clearly is not good for
the health of FidoNet.
Exactly, this is not a power dispute... we are just a few crazy
nodes. It's a technical issue, I want the things to work.
And when they don't work, they can be made to work and not expect
that one person, because they are busy with other matters, will
leave the entire area adrift.
WD> How successful do you think I would be?
Not very, for reasons discussed just above. There's no defend-able
reason to replace that ZC, but there is for the other.
WD> The IC is a toothless tiger ... that has been demonstrated in the
WD> past.
There's an old saying that I've heard (and used a few times): Sometimes it's better to ask forgiveness than to seek permission. I don't see how anyone in FidoNet would think this (replacing the AWOL ZC) is not a justified and necessary action. It's for the betterment of FidoNet.
It is not necessary for the IC to change to the ZC, but rather
the ZC must come clean and step aside, leaving others to continue
holding the zone while he cannot do so.
It is not necessary for the IC to change to the ZC, but rather the ZC
must come clean and step aside, leaving others to continue holding the
zone while he cannot do so.
1) You (meaning Z4) need to shed R92 ... it is useless, always has been from the very beginning. He was one of those guys that pops-up out of nowhere, think they have all the answers, will save Fidonet, make it
bloom again, claim to offer no-nonsense links to everything and
everyone, run out-dated backbones, in doing so disrupt echomail distribution and netmail routing, whithin 6 months they drop from the radar having a VPN somewhere they forgot about. There is at least one otherone like that I can point to in the nodelist...
2) Talk to the other live RCs/nodes and just decide amongst yourselves to appoint a new ZC4, I'm not talking about the P4 impeachment procedure which is very unpractical. Just do it. It implies also a new RC90, a new NC900 and a new NC902 because otherwise you will lose access to all
those nodes. Don't forget, you are one of these nodes and while you feel commitment for change, perhaps you could be the next NC902?
3) Create a new region and name it "America Latina", move all the
existing nets 'as is' to that new region ... you just need to find a new NC900 ... and have that new region hosted in either Z1 or Z2, both make sense. Z1 because of geographical perception perhaps and then the zone could be renamed "The_Americas" per Dan Clough's suggestion, or Z2
because of the Spanish linguistic link. ZC1 and I already discussed it
and whatever makes you happy, will make us happy and get our
cooperation. I haven't mentioned it to Scott Little ZC3 but I'm certain he'll see the practicality of it too ... or maybe you could all become Australians... 8-)
OK?
These are the solutions and tools from how I see it. Please share your thoughts with us and let's get going General Patton's words in mind "Either lead, follow or get out of the way".
4:88/0 mastodontbbs.hopto.org:24554 181.162.198.58 Error: Connection timed out
4:88/0 mastodontbbs.hopto.org:24554 181.162.198.58 Error:
Connection timed out
Can you please retest 4:88/0? System is back online now.
Not everything is alright, but 4:88/0 is online, but needs to add some AKA's. Like Manuel also needs to do, and/or update the nodelist...
On 19 Feb 2024, Wilfred van Velzen said the following...
Wv> 4:88/0 mastodontbbs.hopto.org:24554 181.162.198.58 Error: Connection
Wv> timed out
Can you please retest 4:88/0? System is back online now.
Wv> 4:88/0 mastodontbbs.hopto.org:24554 181.162.198.58 Error:I see it offline.
Connection
Wv> timed out
Can you please retest 4:88/0? System is back online now.
I can confirm that. I now get a time out for the 4:88/0 system (and AKA's).
| Sysop: | digital man |
|---|---|
| Location: | Riverside County, California |
| Users: | 1,039 |
| Nodes: | 15 (0 / 15) |
| Uptime: | 153:20:54 |
| Calls: | 500,211 |
| Calls today: | 12 |
| Files: | 95,197 |
| D/L today: |
674 files (117M bytes) |
| Messages: | 466,071 |